Trial Tested
Trial Tested: A Podcast by the American College of Trial Lawyers presents enlightening discussions about life and law through interviews with prominent trial lawyers and significant figures in the world of trial law. From lead counsel in historic cases to justices of the court, you will hear from the people who have made an impact in the courtroom – and in life. Hosted by Fellows of the College, Trial Tested aims to inspire trial attorneys to maintain and improve the standards of trial practice, professionalism, ethics and the administration of justice.
Thu, April 24, 2025
S11E4: Ponzi Schemes, Pollution, and the Death Penalty: Doug Young on Advocating for the Unpopular
In this episode, ACTL Past President Doug Young reflects on how his family, mentors, and love of storytelling helped shape a distinguished career in trial and appellate law. He recounts powerful cases, from defending a troubled stockbroker in a white-collar Ponzi scheme to representing a corporation accused of environmental violations to arguing death penalty sentences – each highlighting the challenge of advocating for unpopular clients. Young shares vivid courtroom stories, including a dramatic Ninth Circuit argument that concluded with a 911 call, all underscoring his belief in professionalism, mentorship, and service.
Thu, April 17, 2025
S11E3: Breaking Barriers and Pursuing Justice with Sheila Block
Celebrated Canadian litigator Sheila Block joins host Sandra Barton. Sheila reflects on a trailblazing, 50-year career defined by complex commercial litigation, and impactful pro bono work. Sandra’s conversation with Sheila touches on civility; advocacy tips; and Sheila’s unique approach to navigating a male-dominated profession with wit and resilience. Together, they also delve into Sheila’s defense of former Associate Chief Justice, Lori Douglas - a case in which Sheila raised challenges to judicial bias and advocated against penalizing victims for non-consensual publication of their intimate pictures.
Thu, April 03, 2025
S11E2: Politics, Law, and the White House: Inside Washington with Neil Eggleston
Neil Eggleston joins host Dave Thomas to discuss his journey from growing up in Indiana to clerking for Supreme Court Chief Justice Warren Burger and eventually serving as White House Counsel during the Obama administration. He reflects on his early experiences in Washington, including his role in the Iran-Contra investigation and later involvement in the Clinton administration, where he navigated the Monica Lewinsky scandal and various independent counsel inquiries. Throughout the conversation, Eggleston highlights the changes between politics and legal practice, particularly the intersection of executive privilege, congressional scrutiny, and legal ethics.
Thu, March 27, 2025
S11E1: Public Service and High-Stakes Cases: A Conversation with E. Martin Estrada
Former U.S. Attorney E. Martin Estrada joins host Vince Citro to discuss his journey from being the first in his family to attend law school to his career as a federal prosecutor and private attorney. Estrada shares how his family's immigration from Guatemala shaped his deep appreciation for the U.S. legal system and motivated his commitment to justice and public service. As U.S. Attorney for the Central District of California—the nation's most populous district—Estrada led high-stakes cases, including fentanyl prosecutions, civil rights violations, and public corruption. He aggressively pursued drug dealers responsible for fatal overdoses, violent gangs and white supremacist organizations. He also launched Operation Safe Cities , a program aimed at reducing gun violence. Estrada reflects on rewarding experiences, such as engaging with victims and mentoring youth in underserved communities, while also sharing difficult moments, including the Monterey Park mass shooting and the loss and destruction of the LA Wildfires.
Mon, February 17, 2025
In Baseball or the Courtroom, the Facts are the Facts, but Preparation is Key: President’s Day Episode with Bill Murphy
In this special President’s Day episode, host Amy Gunn interviews Immediate Past President of the College Bill Murphy, whose career embodies principled advocacy. Bill recounts his first trial victory – a murder acquittal – his work alongside Edward Bennett Williams, and his high-profile defense of prominent DC attorney Gregory Craig as well as a Yemeni physician detained in Guantanamo Bay, underscoring the emotional and professional stakes of litigation. He also reflects on his leadership role in the College, discussing its efforts to support judicial independence, encourage mentorship and ensure access to justice.
Thu, November 21, 2024
S10E6: The Holloway Project: Judge John Gleeson on Fair Sentencing and Second Chances
As a young prosecutor, John Gleeson was part of a two-lawyer team that prosecuted mob boss John Gotti. That seven-month trial resulted in 1987 in an acquittal, and one of the jurors was later convicted for taking a bribe from John Gotti’s underboss. Five years later Gleeson was the lead prosecutor in the successful prosecution of Gotti, who was convicted of five murders and numerous other crimes and sentenced to life in prison. Gleeson then took the bench, where he witnessed firsthand the impact of mandatory minimum sentencing. In this compelling episode, Judge Gleeson joins host Vince Citro to discuss his journey from prosecutor to federal judge, sharing how his time on the bench transformed his perspective on justice. He recounts the case of Francois Holloway, whose 57-year sentence was reduced through Gleeson’s efforts while on the bench. This experience inspired Gleeson to create the Holloway Project, a pro bono initiative that seeks sentence reductions for inmates serving excessive sentences, focusing on those who have demonstrated personal growth and reform. As of the time of this podcast, the Holloway Project at Debevoise had obtained sentence reductions for 61 clients, and the average reduction is more than 39 years.
Thu, November 14, 2024
S10E5: The Art of Supreme Court Advocacy with Carter Phillips
Carter Phillips, one of the most prolific U.S. Supreme Court advocates of our time, joins host Terri Mascherin to share insights into arguing before the nation’s highest court. With 90 cases argued, Phillips discusses the impact of oral arguments versus briefs on case outcomes, the art of anticipating questions, and shifts in courtroom dynamics over the past four decades. Phillips also emphasizes the importance of rigorous writing and practical experience for those pursuing a path in appellate advocacy.
Thu, November 07, 2024
S10E4: Fear and Injustice: Legal Reflections on Japanese American Internment with Chuck Rosenberg
Join host Amy Gunn as she interviews Former U.S. Attorney and Acting Administrator of the DEA Chuck Rosenberg. As they delve into his study of Japanese American internment during WWII, Rosenberg discusses Executive Order 9066, ignored intelligence reports revealing no espionage threat, and landmark cases such as Hirabayashi, Korematsu, and Endo. He reveals how suppression of evidence led to devastating rulings justifying internment, even as Japanese American soldiers fought abroad while their families remained detained. Reflecting on this history, Rosenberg emphasizes the ongoing need for vigilance against fear-driven injustice.
Thu, October 31, 2024
S10E3: Election Law with Kevin Hamilton: Recounts, Contests, and the Courts' Crucial Role
In this episode, host Dave Thomas and attorney Kevin Hamilton discuss the evolving legal landscape of elections. Hamilton clarifies the distinction between a recount and an election contest, while also addressing the litigation strategies and challenges seen in recent election cycles. The timely conversation delves into complex issues such as redistricting, voter rights and suppression efforts, and restrictions on absentee ballots – especially in marginalized communities. The conversation emphasizes the vital role of the judiciary in resolving election-related litigation.
Thu, October 24, 2024
S10E2: Win or Lose, Integrity Matters: In the Courtroom with Bob Byman
Chicago attorney Bob Byman joins host Terri Mascherin to reflect on a career of high-profile, complex litigation cases and a Supreme Court argument that reversed a Ruth Bader Ginsberg decision – all delivered with a sharp wit and keen insights. He discusses the importance of resilience in facing challenges, emphasizing a career rooted in both civic duty and professional achievement. Byman also shares the personal significance of his pro bono work and why “nothing” is the best fee he ever earned.
Thu, October 17, 2024
S10E1: Equality and Justice: A Conversation with The Hon. Rosalie Abella
Retired Canadian Supreme Court Justice Rosalie Abella joins host Renee Rothauge to discuss her life and legacy in human rights and equality law. As the first Jewish woman appointed to the Supreme Court of Canada, Justice Abella has championed the rights of marginalized communities throughout her career. Her groundbreaking work includes shaping the concept of equality through landmark decisions and dissents on family law, employment equity and religious freedoms. Beyond her legal contributions, Justice Abella also shares how her family history, along with her love of music and literature, helped shape her worldview.
Thu, August 22, 2024
S9E7: The Sutherland Springs Church Shooting, Part Two: Digging Deep, Narrowing Complexity, and Effecting Change with Jamal Alsaffar
In part two of this interview, Jamal Alsaffar discusses the challenges and trial strategies involved in the Sutherland Springs Church Shooting case with host Amy Gunn. Alsaffar highlights the importance of empathy, sharing how he creatively used the courtroom's layout to help the judge and others grasp the trauma experienced by the victims. He recounts the discovery of crucial evidence, including handwritten notes revealing the shooter's extensive history of violent crimes and failed attempts to access military bases after discharge, arguing that the military’s negligence in reporting the shooter’s criminal history contributed to the tragedy. Alsaffar emphasizes the vital role of trial law in effecting change.
Thu, August 15, 2024
S9E6: The Sutherland Springs Church Shooting, Part One: Trust, Accountability, and Seeing the Bigger Picture with Jamal Alsaffar
In part one of this interview, trial attorney Jamal Alsaffar discusses his involvement in the Sutherland Springs Church Shooting case with host Amy Gunn. Pursuing the case under the Federal Tort Claims Act (FTCA), Alsaffar revealed a systemic failure by the Air Force and other military branches to report criminal records to the FBI’s background check system, which enabled the Sutherland Springs shooter to legally purchase firearms. Alsaffar highlights the importance of honesty with clients while detailing the significant legal hurdles the case faced, including opposition from the Department of Justice and the gun industry. Through collaboration with other lawyers and contributions to related cases, his efforts led to systemic changes in military reporting procedures, underscoring the critical role of trials in achieving justice and enforcing accountability.
Thu, August 08, 2024
S9E5: Cybersecurity, Civics and Civil Discourse: Defending Democracy with Suzanne Spaulding
An attorney by education, Suzanne Spaulding has spent most of her career in public service, providing her expertise on cybersecurity and infrastructure to the United States Department of Homeland Security, the CIA, the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency, and more. Spaulding joins host Vince Citro for an in-depth discussion about democracy, the strategic advantages of transparency, and how misinformation and a lack of civics education has contributed to the erosion of civil discourse.
Thu, August 01, 2024
S9E4: Stay the Course: Wisdom and Counsel from Criminal Defense Attorney Dick DeGuerin
Criminal defense attorney Dick DeGuerin has defended members of Congress, judges, cult leaders and everyone in between. In this episode, DeGuerin joins host Vince Citro and reveals how he came to represent David Koresh and what transpired in Waco, Texas that fateful April of 1993. He also discusses how he avoided becoming labeled a “cult lawyer” through his high-profile representation of public figures such as U.S. House Majority Leader Tom DeLay and U.S. Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison. Listen in as DeGuerin shares valuable advice for young attorneys and underscores the importance of giving back.
Thu, July 25, 2024
S9E3: Deepfakes and Hallucinations: AI, Evidence, and the Law with Professor Maura R. Grossman
Join host Terri Mascherin as she discusses generative artificial intelligence and its impact on trial law with Professor Maura R. Grossman, an expert in the field. Using recent examples, Professor Grossman explains why this rapidly evolving technology can’t be ignored, how to understand its usefulness and how to prevent misuse and “deepfake defense” In the courtroom.
Thu, July 18, 2024
S9E2: Susan Harriman on Speaking Up and Having Fun, Inside the Courtroom and Out
Join host Amy Gunn as she talks with ACTL Past President Susan Harriman about family, career, and her involvement with the College. Harriman recounts how a chance conversation with a stranger on a train led her to apply to law school after her service as a Peace Corps volunteer. She discusses her role in helping grow a firm from 10 to more than 120 attorneys, addressing the unique decisions and challenges facing women attorneys. Harriman shares her love of teaching while reflecting on her experiences with juries, opposing counsel and lessons learned from some of her most significant cases, including her defense of Electronic Arts.
Thu, July 11, 2024
S9E1: Learning by Doing: From AUSA to the West Wing with Secretary Jeh Johnson
From discovering his motivation as a student at Morehouse College to walking the halls of the West Wing, former Secretary of Homeland Security Jeh Johnson joins host Dave Thomas to recount his accomplished career. Secretary Johnson shares his experiences in public service, highlighting high-profile matters such as the repeal of the military policy “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell,” while emphasizing the complexities and challenges of balancing civil liberties with security measures. You’ll hear how his experience as an Assistant U.S. Attorney helped shape his approach as a public servant, which in turn influenced his leadership style upon returning to private practice, where he is now back to trying cases today.
Wed, June 19, 2024
Special Juneteenth Episode: “Slavery by Another Name” with Professor Douglas Blackmon
In this special Juneteenth episode, Professor Douglas Blackmon joins host Dave Thomas to delve into what drove Blackmon to write his Pulitzer Prize-winning book, "Slavery by Another Name," which details the manipulation of the criminal justice system to terrorize and inflict forced labor onto African American men in the South after the Civil War. Blackmon discusses how World War II catalyzed the dismantling of such practices while acknowledging the ongoing issue of mass incarceration and current societal disparities.
S8 E6 · Thu, April 18, 2024
The Importance of Humor, Civility and Staying Focused on the Legal Issues with Jeff Leon
Past President of the College Jeff Leon joins host Dave Thomas to discuss his career as a leading Canadian litigator. He reflects on his role as co-lead counsel to the Public Order Emergency Commission following the Freedom Convoy protests, highlighting the challenges and importance of addressing issues regarding freedom of expression. Reflecting on notable cases, such as the sale of the Toronto Maple Leafs hockey team, Leon stresses the significance of focusing on the legal issues at hand, mentoring young lawyers, and promoting civility within the legal profession.
S8 E5 · Thu, April 11, 2024
“Because You’re a Girl” – Jill Wine-Banks on Sexism and Serving as the Youngest Watergate Prosecutor
In this episode of Trial Tested, former Watergate prosecutor Jill Wine-Banks recounts her early career and the challenges she faced as a female lawyer, first in the Department of Justice's organized crime division and then as the youngest Watergate prosecutor. Wine-Banks joins host Terri Mascherin to discuss the obstacles faced by the Watergate prosecution team, including the infamous "Saturday Night Massacre" and the discovery of an 18-and-a-half-minute gap in the Watergate tapes. She discusses the parallels between the Watergate era and the contemporary erosion of democratic norms, reflecting on how her experiences during Watergate helped shape her views on current legal and political challenges.
S8 E4 · Thu, April 04, 2024
Paul Meyer on Empathy, Dignity and Defending High-Profile Clients
Go to criminal defense attorney Paul Meyer of Orange County, California reflects on his career with host Dave Thomas. Meyer emphasizes the importance of preparation and empathy. He shares his criminal defense experiences with high profile clients such as Dennis Rodman, Merrill Lynch, national sports figures, elected officials, and the Saudi Arabian Royal Family, as well as his years defending judges in misconduct allegation cases. Meyer’s insight about managing both personalities and complex legal issues is compelling. He advises young lawyers to focus on cases they enjoy and stresses the significance of compassion in navigating legal challenges, drawing from his work with clients such as Al Joyner coping with wife Florence Griffith Joyner's tragic death.
S8 E3 · Thu, March 28, 2024
Criminal Defense Attorney David Oscar Markus on Trial Strategy and Putting Passion into Practice
In this episode, host Vince Citro interviews David Oscar Markus, criminal defense attorney and host of his own podcast, For the Defense. Markus emphasizes the importance of loving what you do while discussing themes and trial strategy. He reflects on the significance of client testimony and the unpredictability of trial outcomes. Through his experiences, he underscores the evolving nature of trial strategy and the importance of adaptability in pursuing one's passion for trial advocacy.
S8 E2 · Thu, March 21, 2024
Verdicts and Values: Exploring Intellectual Property Litigation with William Lee
Join host Renee Rothauge as she discusses the intricate world of intellectual property and patent case litigation with Attorney William Lee. From the Iran-Contra Affair to the “smartphone wars” to navigating losses like the recent Supreme Court affirmative action case, Lee shares his insights and lessons learned from trying more than 200 cases to verdict. He also delves into personal encounters with discrimination and pride in his Chinese heritage. As an inductee into the American Academy of Arts and Sciences, Lee reflects on his career, prioritizing family, and the enduring values of integrity and mentorship.
S8 E1 · Thu, March 14, 2024
Bridging Divides: Sharon McMahon on Civics, Democracy, and Civil Discourse in America
Sharon McMahon, renowned as 'America's government teacher' and host of the podcast ‘Here’s Where It Gets Interesting,' joins host Amy Gunn to discuss topics such as nonpartisan civics education, fostering respectful dialogue and the importance of democracy. Originally a high school government teacher, Sharon unexpectedly transitioned to a national platform, driven by a desire to combat political misinformation and promote civil discourse. She stresses the need for empathy and engagement to bridge ideological divides and promote an educated electorate.
Mon, January 15, 2024
“Special Episode: Judge Willie Epps on Persistence, Breaking Barriers, and Seeing Yourself in the Room You’re In”
Honorable Willie J. Epps, Jr., judge in the U.S. District Court, Western District of Missouri, and author of The Jackie Robinsons of the Federal Judiciary: Examining the Appointment of the First Black Federal Judges, joins host Amy Gunn to discuss the history of Black federal judges, mentoring young lawyers, and fair and impartial treatment – irrespective of race – in the courtroom.
S7 E6 · Thu, November 16, 2023
S7E6: Dissents and Answers: Insights from The Hon. Suzanne Côté, Supreme Court of Canada
The Hon. Suzanne Côté was the first woman to be appointed to the Supreme Court of Canada directly from private practice in 2014. This week, Madam Justice Côté joins host Amy Gunn to discuss her surprising journey from litigator to the Supreme Court, the heathy value of dissenting opinions and the importance of “answering the question.”
S7 E5 · Thu, November 09, 2023
S7E5: Exploring Reason, Conviction and the U.S. Constitution with Jeffrey Rosen
Jeffrey Rosen, President and CEO of the National Constitution Center (NCC) in Philadelphia, joins host Renee Rothauge for a comprehensive discussion about the US Constitution. They explore topics ranging from civics education to the impact of AI to the importance of fostering civil discourse on constitutional principles, all underscored with Rosen’s dedication to educating people about the Constitution through the NCC’s innovative platforms.
Thu, November 02, 2023
S7E4: Exoneration: a 28-Year Journey to Freedom with Lamar Johnson and Innocence Project attorney Charlie Weiss
Late one night in 1994, Marcus Boyd was fatally shot on his front porch, leading to the wrongful conviction of Lamar Johnson. In 2023, Johnson finally walked out of a courtroom a free man after having served nearly 28 years for a crime he didn't commit. In this episode, host Terri Mascherin is joined by Johnson and attorney Charlie Weiss to discuss the importance of Pro Bono work and the extensive investigation that ultimately led to Johnson’s exoneration.
S7 E3 · Thu, October 26, 2023
S7E3: Empathy, Understanding, and Effective Advocacy: Insights from Judge Jeremy Fogel
From religious discrimination to execution protocol, Judge Jeremy Fogel is no stranger to handling challenging matters in his courtroom. Judge Fogel, recipient of the Samuel E. Gates Litigation Award, joins host Dave Thomas to discuss effective advocacy, emphasizing empathy and mindfulness in the courtroom. By examining the role of culture, language and trauma in shaping individuals’ experiences, Judge Fogel delves into the importance of addressing unconscious biases within the legal profession.
S7 E2 · Thu, October 19, 2023
S7E2: Integrity in the Courtroom with David Beck
ACTL Past President David Beck emphasizes the importance of humility, hard work, and continual learning in this interview with host Vince Citro. With notable involvement in pivotal cases such as the BP Oil Spill litigation and other matters for Exxon, Beck's extensive career has earned him respect and admiration from clients and legal professionals alike.
S7 E1 · Thu, October 12, 2023
S7E1: From Courtroom to Courtside: Michele Roberts on Law and the National Basketball Players Association
For Michele Roberts, former Executive Director of the National Basketball Players Association (NBPA), a career in law was sparked when her mother took her to observe local court proceedings as a child. Host Mike Herring delves into her experiences as Chief of the Trial Division at the PDS, her transition to private practice and her pivotal role at the NBPA. Roberts provides valuable insights on managing egos and agendas while maintaining credibility and connection, both in and out of the courtroom.
S6 E6 · Thu, August 10, 2023
S6E6: Brian Gover on Due Process and Equity for All
Brian Gover is known for tackling complex legal issues and leaving an indelible mark on high-profile cases throughout his career. Gover discusses his work in criminal and Aboriginal law, where he has represented both the Crown and individuals seeking justice. In this captivating conversation with host Dave Thomas, Gover emphasizes the importance of due process and treating both the powerful and powerless with equity.
S6 E5 · Thu, August 03, 2023
S6E5: Escaping the Taliban: How Judges Patricia Whalen and Mona Lynch helped Women Judges in Afghanistan
In 2021, as international peacekeeping forces prepared to withdraw from Afghanistan, about 270 Afghan women serving as judges feared for their lives. A small group of international women judges, led by Patricia Whalen and Mona Lynch, tirelessly coordinated evacuations and sought government assistance to help these women escape. Join host Terri Mascherin for an inspiring conversation with Judges Whalen and Lynch as they share their remarkable story of bravery and perseverance.
S6 E4 · Thu, July 27, 2023
S6E4: Behind the Scenes with DeMaurice Smith
Join host Mike Herring as he interviews DeMaurice Smith, delving into a remarkable career that spans private practice and time in the U.S. Attorney’s office, leading up to his unanimous appointment as Executive Director of the NFL Players Association in 2009. Recognized for his role in guiding the players association through the 2011 NFL lockout, Smith was pivotal in facilitating a groundbreaking collective bargaining agreement and spearheading the development of vital health and safety protocols for players.
S6 E3 · Thu, July 20, 2023
S6E3: Don’t be Afraid to Ask: Insights from Judge Barbara Lynn
Judge Barbara Lynn, recipient of the Samuel E. Gates Litigation Award and the first female chief judge in Texas history, shares wisdom from her experience as a trial lawyer and judge in this interview with host Renee Rothauge. Judge Lynn emphasizes the importance of speaking up for what you want and taking opportunities to learn and practice while discussing topics ranging from jury trials during the pandemic to the use of AI in the courtroom.
S6 E2 · Thu, July 13, 2023
S6E2: Marc Mukasey: You’re Never Out of the Fight
Marc Mukasey is known for managing high-profile cases such as the defense of Navy SEAL Edward Gallagher in a widely publicized trial and Halliburton in the Deepwater Horizon disaster. Mukasey joins host Vince Citro to discuss the importance of authenticity, connecting with a jury, and maintaining the fight for the pursuit of justice.
S6 E1 · Thu, July 06, 2023
S6E1: Prosecutor to Ambassador: A Journey of Empathy and Understanding with Kevin O’Malley
Ambassador Kevin O'Malley's career spans from prosecuting organized crime for the Department of Justice to private practice to serving as Ambassador to Ireland. After his tenure as Ambassador, he returned to St. Louis University Law School where is now a professor and ambassador in residence. Host Amy Gunn discusses Ambassador O'Malley's journey from being the descendant of Irish Immigrants to his nomination as ambassador, and how it instilled a deep appreciation for empathy and understanding diverse perspectives.
S6 Enull · Mon, June 19, 2023
Special Episode: Jeffery Robinson and the Who We Are Project
On Juneteenth 2018, ACTL Fellow Jeffery Robinson stood before a packed house at the Historic Town Hall Theater on Broadway in Manhattan to present his closing argument on racism in America. Five years later, on Juneteenth 2023, Jeffery joins host Terri Mascherin to discuss his documentary film titled, “Who We Are: A Chronicle of Racism in America,” and his nonprofit organization, The Who We Are Project.
S5 E7 · Thu, April 20, 2023
S5E7- Defense for the Defense: Part 2 with Bob Trout, Josh Treem, and Bill Jeffries
The conversation with attorneys Bob Trout, Josh Treem and Bill Jeffries continues as they recount how a criminal defense attorney came to be accused of obstruction for simply doing his job. Listen as they discuss the issues resulting from government overreach, cooperating criminal defendants and false testimony – among other things – with host Amy Gunn.
S5 E6 · Thu, April 13, 2023
S5E6 - Defense for the Defense: Part 1 with Bob Trout, Josh Treem, and Bill Jeffries
When you’re a criminal defense attorney facing government accusations, what do you do? In Part One of this captivating case study, attorneys Bob Trout, Josh Treem and Bill Jeffries discuss with host Amy Gunn how the defender of one criminal defense attorney came to need his own criminal defender and what happened next.
S5 E5 · Thu, April 06, 2023
S5E5 - Inside the Florida Supreme Court with Justice Barbara Pariente
Sandra Day O’Connor Jurist Award recipient Barbara Pariente became just the second woman to be appointed to Florida’s Supreme court in 1997. Six years later, and just one year before becoming Chief Justice, Pariente was diagnosed with – and later beat – breast cancer. Host Dave Paul uncovers the stories behind this trailblazer in the justice system as they discuss strength, integrity and enjoying life after serving 21 years on Florida’s highest court.
S5 E4 · Thu, March 30, 2023
S5E4 - Houston Gordon: Persuasiveness Comes from Trust
He has prosecuted a serial killer and represented a mass murderer, but Houston Gordon’s greatest joy as a trial lawyer is representing catastrophically injured children. Listen as host Mike Herring uncovers the natural storyteller in Tennessee litigator Houston Gordon as they discuss Lt. William Calley and the My Lai Massacre, the clemency of Cyntoia Brown and the lessons learned from a 50-year career in the courtroom.
S5 E3 · Thu, March 23, 2023
S5E3 - Benjamin Brafman: There Are No Shortcuts
Attorney Benjamin Brafman has represented some of the highest-profile white collar criminal defendants in New York. From Hollywood mogul Harvey Weinstein to NFL wide receiver Plaxico Burress to Executive Martin Shkreli, Brafman never wavers from his number one rule: Be the best-prepared person in the courtroom. Enjoy a discussion spanning Brafman’s 50-year career with host Dave Paul.
S5 E2 · Thu, March 16, 2023
S5E2 - The Attica Prison Uprising of 1971 and its Legacy with Dr. Heather Ann Thompson
Historian Dr. Heather Ann Thompson always starts with the facts. Host Amy Gunn talks with Dr. Thompson about what happens when history gets it wrong, and her decades-long research into finding out the truth about what really happened at Attica Prison. Listen as they discuss Dr. Thompson’s book – Blood in the Water, The Attica Prison Uprising of 1971, and Its Legacy.
S5 E1 · Thu, March 09, 2023
S5E1 - Civil Rights Attorney and Presidential Medal of Freedom Recipient Fred Gray
Iconic civil rights attorney, preacher and recent recipient of the ACTL Thurgood Marshall Equality and Justice Award, Fred Gray takes host Gregory K. Wells on a tour of the Tuskegee History Center. Known for representing Rosa Parks, Martin Luther King, Jr. and the victims of the Tuskegee Syphilis Study, listen as Gray discusses his life’s work fighting for equality and justice for all.
S4 E7 · Mon, January 16, 2023
Special Episode: Mike Cody on Representing MLK Jr., Confronting Segregation and Running a 4:24 Mile
Mike Cody was on the trial team who represented Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. and was one of the last attorney groups to speak with Dr. King prior to his murder. An avid runner, he’s logged in over 80,000 miles, using the exercise to process, relax and think about tough cases. Listen as Host Mike Herring speaks with Cody about segregation, Dr. King, and his life of legal service.
S4 E6 · Thu, November 17, 2022
S4E6 - Andrew Coats, Successful Attorney, Officer in the Navy, Mayor, Dean, Professor and more….
Join Host Mike Herring as he speaks with Past President of the College, Andrew Coats. Coats talks about his journey in the Navy, law school, and prosecuting one of the biggest murder cases in the history of Oklahoma. Coats is known for his landmark argument in the US Supreme Court that broke the NCAA’s college football TV monopoly. His experience in the courtroom allows him to be a great teacher in the classroom. Insightful discussion – enjoy.
S4 E5 · Thu, November 10, 2022
S4E5 - Author Kati Marton: “Just Do Not Engage with Skunks”
Kati Marton, a journalist, human rights activist, author, and great storyteller. Marton speaks about Angela Merkel’s iron composure and how nothing could rattle her. Trial lawyers are often goaded – learn by example from Angela Merkel; don’t take the bait. Join us as host Amy Gunn recounts excerpts from Kati Marton’s book The Chancellor, the Remarkable Odyssey of Angela Merkel .
S4 E4 · Thu, November 03, 2022
S4E4 - Rick Friedman, An Advocate Teacher
Rick Friedman, trial lawyer, published author, teacher, attorney and influencer, joins host Dave Paul for an in-depth conversation on practicing law and the importance of mental health and therapy.
S4 E3 · Thu, October 27, 2022
S4E3 - Newspaper Headline: “Enemies of the People”, After a Win in the High Court with Lord David Pannick
Lord Pannick, a Barrister for over 40 years and appointed by an independent committee to the House of Lords, has fascinating stories about his journey to becoming King's Counsel. Host Amy Gunn learns about Lord Pannick’s participation in Brexit as they talk law, Queens, Kings, and supreme courts.
S4 E2 · Thu, October 20, 2022
S4E2 - Boma Alabi Has the Willingness and a Desire to Serve
Boma Alabi is a commercial trial lawyer working in Nigeria while maintaining a large pro bono criminal workload. Boma is a fierce advocate and creator of a soon to be released App aimed at helping citizens being targeted and harassed by government agencies. Listen as host Amy Gunn talks to Boma about leaving her home country and returning years later to practice law while giving citizens a tool to be safe on the streets.
S4 E1 · Thu, October 13, 2022
S4E1 - Show Me the Evidence with Earl Silbert
Earl Silbert was known for his role as the first prosecutor in Watergate and he served as President of the College from 2000 to 2001. Host Dave Paul talks with Earl about the Watergate “scandal” and his extraordinary career in private practice.
S3 E7 · Thu, July 28, 2022
S3E7 – Christy Jones: Lifetime Lawyer and Volunteer Worker in Asia
Listen as Christy Jones recounts fascinating stories, from being one of the first women in drug and medical device mass tort litigation, to giving back to others while working in Asia. Join Host Amy Gunn as they speak about the ever-changing world of law.
S3 E6 · Thu, July 21, 2022
S3E6 - The Humility to Prepare and the Confidence to Pull it Off with Doug Young
Doug Young, Past President of the American College of Trial Lawyers and a veteran of the United States Marine Corps, has an extensive career in matters relating to antitrust, securities, FCPA claims, theft-of-trade secrets/IP, white-collar defense and court-appointed indigent defense including death penalty cases. Join host Mike Herring as they talk about the courtroom and what it’s like to represent other lawyers at trial.
S3 E5 · Thu, July 14, 2022
S3E5 - Nothing But The Truth with Marie Henein
As one of Canada’s top criminal defense lawyers, Marie Henein has elevated the art of cross-examination. She is also known for her outspoken views on ethics, respect for the justice system and equality in the workplace. Host Dave Paul talks with Marie about her passion for the truth, her legendary cross-examination prep and her belief that every lawyer has an obligation to better the profession by nurturing talent. You’ll want to follow up this inspiring conversation by reading Marie’s latest book, “Nothing But The Truth” for a deeper dive into Marie’s fascinating story.
S3 E4 · Thu, July 07, 2022
S3E4 - Put Yourself in the Jury Box with Warren Lightfoot
One of the country’s most respected attorneys handling complex litigation, Warren Lightfoot knows how to persuade a jury. His personal style reflects down-home Southern manners and planning every word and action to make a positive impression on jurors. Join Host Mike Herring for an entertaining and insightful discussion about life, law and legal strategy with Super Lawyer Warren Lightfoot.
S3 E3 · Thu, June 30, 2022
S3E3 – Nancy Hollander “I’m A Terrorist Lawyer and Proud of It.”
Nancy Hollander has fought the government all of her life and especially when she was an attorney. Listen as she talks about Guantanamo and other poignant times throughout her career. Join Host Amy Gunn as they speak about struggles, life, and law.
S3 E2 · Thu, June 23, 2022
S3E2 - Biggest Mistake in Cross Examination with David Boies, Part Two
David Boies explains why the witness is not your friend as he tells the story of when he cross-examined Bill Gates. If you have a witness that’s being evasive, give them enough rope. Join Dave Paul as they talk strategically in and out of the courtroom.
S3 E1 · Thu, June 16, 2022
S3E1 - Nothing is More Exciting than Trial with David Boies, Part One
David Boies, who has loved the practice of law for close to 60 years talks about his journey, what he has learned and his broad span as a lawyer. Listen as David Boise talks governmental work with Senator Kennedy and representing Al Gore. Join Host Dave Paul for this two-part fascinating interview.
S2 E6 · Thu, April 14, 2022
S2E6 - Fifty Years in the Courtroom with John Keker
John Keker is one of the Top 100 Most Influential Lawyers in the United States. In addition to serving as law clerk to Retired Chief Justice at the U.S. Supreme Court Earl Warren, his trial legacy includes several high-profile cases in the national spotlight, including prosecuting Oliver North. Known for his tenacious courtroom tactics, John tells it like in is in this wide-ranging discussion with Host Mike Herring about ethics, judges, juries and his passion for doing what’s right.
S2 E5 · Thu, April 07, 2022
S2E5 - Defending High Profile Clients with Pamela Mackey
Pamela Mackey may be best known for her successful defense of high-profile celebrities like Kobe Bryant and Patrick Roy, which earned her the nickname “a pitbull in pearls.” But even if the client wasn’t a household name, Pamela Mackey loved representing anyone in a difficult situation. Host Amy Gunn talks with Pamela about some of her most famous cases and her personal strategies for dealing with the media and preparing a client for trial.
S2 E4 · Thu, March 31, 2022
S2E4 - The View from the Bench with Justice Marie Deschamps
Justice Marie Deschamps served on the Supreme Court of Canada and continues to champion social causes even after stepping down from the bench. Host Amy Gunn talks with Justice Deschamps about her career, her landmark decisions and her advice for attorneys of all ages about how to handle responsibility, dissent and social evolution.
S2 E3 · Thu, March 24, 2022
S2E3 - A Legacy of Honesty with Ken Feinberg
Ken Feinberg is one of the most prominent dispute resolution attorneys in the country. He served as Special Master of the 9/11 Victim Compensation fund, ran the BP Deepwater Horizon Disaster Victim Compensation Fund and managed compensation systems relating to the Aurora and Virginia Tech shootings and the Boston Marathon bombing. Join host Dave Paul for a fascinating discussion about ethics, honesty and public service with one of the most highly regarded mediators in America.
S2 E2 · Thu, March 17, 2022
S2E2 - Do What’s Right with Cyrus Vance
District Attorney of Manhattan Cyrus Vance Jr. views every case through the lens of two basic principles: does it make us safer and is it fair? His office has handled some of the most influential cases in the country, including the Harvey Weinstein case and the Malcolm X conviction integrity trial. Host Amy Gunn talks with DA Vance about integrity, leadership and the importance of doing what’s right in every aspect of public service. Tune in for an inspiring discussion.
S2 E1 · Thu, March 10, 2022
S2E1 - The Ahmaud Arbery Murder Case & Charlottesville Hate Crimes with Linda Dunikoski & Alan Levine
The entire country was watching when Linda Dunikoski and Alan Levine tried these two racially charged cases and won. Host Amy Gunn talked with Linda and Alan during the ACTL Spring Conference about their pre-trial, voir dire and courtroom strategies, and their concerns and hopes for the American justice system. Tune in for a fascinating behind-the-scenes discussion of how these two gifted attorneys and their legal teams forced the vitriol of race to take a back seat to the rule of law.
S1 E6 · Thu, November 11, 2021
S1E6 - Every Trial is a Teachable Moment with Chilton Varner
Chilton Varner believes great trial lawyers never stop learning, and that every trial is a teachable moment for attorneys and the younger lawyers they mentor. Host Mike Herring leads a wide-ranging discussion about Chilton’s career as a leader in commercial and product liability litigation and explores her contention that successful lawyers tend to be more conversational than combative.
S1 E5 · Thu, November 04, 2021
S1E5 - For The Defense with Cris Arguedas
Cris Arguedas is one of the finest criminal defense lawyers in the country. Host Amy Gunn talks with Cris about representing clients from Hells Angels to Barry Bonds and Fed Ex, and how she proved to all of them that she wasn’t afraid of a fight. Tune in for pro-tips on preparing for cross examination and courtroom stories from Cris Arguedas, “the lawyer other lawyers would hire if they got arrested.”
S1 E4 · Thu, October 28, 2021
S1E4 - Advocate Aggressively and Act with Civility with Bob Fiske
Former US Attorney for the Southern District of New York and previous ACTL president Bob Fiske has tried many cases in the national spotlight, including the case President Jimmy Carter called “the most important case in the US”, the drug trial of “Mr. Untouchable” Nicky Barnes. Host Dave Paul dives into the background of some of Bob’s most historic cases and reveals key insights on leadership and mentorship that helped define Bob’s legendary success.
S1 E3 · Thu, October 21, 2021
S1E3 - A View from the Bench with Judge Roger Gregory
Judge Roger Gregory is Chief Judge of the United States Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit. From his roots in segregated schools, he has risen to the top of the legal profession and is the only person in the history of the United States to be appointed to a federal appellate court by two Presidents of two different political parties. Host Michael Herring leads a wide-ranging discussion with the distinguished Judge which includes candid advice about life, law and conduct in the courtroom that will benefit every attorney.
S1 E2 · Thu, October 14, 2021
S1E2 - Seeking Justice with Rusty Hardin
Renowned trial attorney Rusty Hardin has fought for justice in some of the nation's highest-profile cases. Join host Dave Paul for a wide-ranging discussion into some of Rusty’s biggest cases and hear his thoughts on the two biggest mistakes most trial attorneys make. His insightful take on why he refuses to take depositions and how he approaches jury selection may make you re-evaluate your own trial tactics.
S1 E1 · Thu, October 07, 2021
S1E1 - Reaching Your Full Potential with Joan Lukey
Joan Lukey is recognized as one of the top litigators in the country and was the first female President of the American College of Trial Lawyers. She is recognized as an extraordinary trial attorney and advocate who exemplifies an unwavering willingness to connect with everyone she meets. In this inspiring first episode of the ACTL’s new Trial Tested podcast, Joan shares her philosophy for success with host Amy Gunn and encourages every attorney to achieve their goals through hard work, mentorship and compassion.
Fri, September 24, 2021
Trial Tested Promo
Trial Tested: A Podcast by the American College of Trial Lawyers presents enlightening discussions about life and law through interviews with prominent trial lawyers and significant figures in the world of trial law.
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