After a decade+ of “blitz-scaling” companies, HR, talent, and People leaders now face an uncertain economy that has already seen big booms and busts. What will it take to construct the next generation of incredible businesses – and where can people leaders have the most business impact? Hosts Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich have been through it all, the highs and the lows – IPOs, layoffs, executive turnover, board meetings, culture changes, and more. With a lineup of industry vets and experts, Nolan and Kelli break down the nitty-gritty details, trade offs, and dynamics of constructing high performing companies. Through unfiltered conversations that can onl...
Fri, April 04, 2025
Today we're excited to introduce you to an episode of 10x Recruiting, a podcast from Metaview hosted by our very own Nolan Church. 10x Recruiting is focused on conversations with top talent leaders to help listeners build world-class teams and stay ahead in the evolving recruiting landscape. Today's guest is Arthur Matuszewski, who shares insights from his diverse career at Bridgewater, Better.com , and his firm Carrara. He emphasizes intellectual honesty, focusing on work outputs rather than titles, and avoiding false negatives in hiring. Nolan says he's one of the most insightful guests ever. Matuszewski advocates for evaluating talent based on actual value creation rather than pedigree, and stresses the importance of adapting recruitment strategies to each org's unique context rather than relying on standardized playbooks. Head to The 10x Recruiting Podcast on YouTube, Apple, or Spotify for more interviews like this one. YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@10x_Recruiting_pod Apple: Spotify: — LINKS: Arthur’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/arthurmatuszewski/ Carrara: https://www.carrara.is/ — TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro (00:53) Episode preview (05:51) Arthur's career journey overview (07:53) Lessons learned at Bridgewater (10:41) Recruiting for teams vs individuals (12:35) Bridgewater's culture of experimentation (16:47) High attrition rate and false negatives (23:22) Better.com's rise and viral moment (28:02) Defining intellectual honesty (30:08) Carrara and focusing on the work (37:56) Balancing productivity with thinking time (40:03) Avoiding sunk costs in talent decisions (43:31) Carrara's process for delivering winners (45:43) Showing founders what the market is saying (47:19) Internal vs external talent perspectives (51:58) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com
Thu, April 03, 2025
In this episode, Kelli Dragovich and Nolan Church are joined by Lucy Adams, founder of Disruptive HR. Adams critiques traditional HR's rigid policies, advocating instead for judgment-based approaches that treat employees as grown-ups. The conversation explores challenges facing HR business partners, the evolution of DEI initiatives, and how organizations can create environments where people thrive through high-trust cultures, rather than compliance-driven systems. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/ HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine. Support HR Heretics Sponsors: Thatch makes it easy to give your team great healthcare. Save ~$1620 per employee yearly while giving them customizable plans. Visit https://thatch.AI/HR for a demo and receive a $100 gift card. Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy. Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics KEEP UP WITH LUCY, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Lucy: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lucykadams/ Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — LINKS: Disruptive HR: https://disruptivehr.com/ Lucy’s article “HR Business Partner: The toughest role in HR?”: https://disruptivehr.com/hr-business-partner-the-toughest-role-in-hr/ — TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro (01:17) Lucy's Background and BBC Experience (03:08) Personal Connection and BBC Stories (04:25) Ori
Tue, April 01, 2025
In this week's 'Dear Heretics' segment, Kelli and Nolan discuss the profound impact of personal crises on work life. They share vulnerable stories about caring for ill family members—Kelli's mother's recent stage four cancer diagnosis and Nolan's father-in-law's illness and passing. They reflect on the impossibility of compartmentalizing personal trauma, the importance of workplace support networks, and practical advice for both those experiencing crises and colleagues supporting them. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/ HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine. Support HR Heretics Sponsors: Thatch makes it easy to give your team great healthcare. Save ~$1620 per employee yearly while giving them customizable plans. Visit https://thatch.AI/HR for a demo and receive a $100 gift card. Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy. Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro (02:24) Impact of Crisis on Professional Life (03:19) Becoming a Parent to Your Parent (03:41) The Adrenaline Phase vs. Reality Setting In (04:18) Nolan's Story of His Father-in-Law (05:47) How Crisis Changes Your Perspective (07:11) The Impossibility of Compartmentalizing Life (08:02) The Importance of Strong Work Relationships (09:21) The Speed of Life-Changing Events (10:01) Gaining Wisdom Through Difficulty (10:18) The Value of Having a Coach (12:22) Using Your Support System Effectively (13:19) Finding a New Balance
Thu, March 27, 2025
In this week's 'Dear Heretics' segment, Nolan and Kelli discuss recent HR tech industry drama involving Rippling and Deel, where a "spy" from Deel allegedly infiltrated Rippling to steal competitive information. They describe Rippling's elaborate "honeypot" trap to catch Deel's corporate spy and how this incident exemplifies the evolution of business conflicts from private disputes to public social media spectacles, highlighting workplace transparency's growing complexity. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/ HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine. Support HR Heretics Sponsor: Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro (00:13) Deel and Rippling Drama (05:00) Rippling's Allegation: Spy in Dublin Office (06:19) The 'Honeypot' Trap Explanation (07:48) "That's Not a Honeypot, That's a Mousetrap" (09:00) Corporate Espionage More Common Than People Think (12:00) Going Public on Twitter as the "Master Stroke" (14:00) Sponsor: Metaview (16:16) New Era of CEOs Going to War (17:15) The Next Phase: Everything Is Public Now (19:24) The Spy Locks Himself in the Bathroom (22:04) Sunlight Is the Best Disinfectant This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com
Tue, March 25, 2025
Nolan and Kelli welcome back friend of the pod David Hanrahan, who's just 60 days into his new role as CHRO at SolarWinds. The conversation kicks off with candid reflections on the Transform 2025 conference - the good, the bad, and what's missing from HR conferences today. They also dig into David's challenges and learnings transitioning to his new role, and a discussion on the changes coming for L&D initiatives. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/ HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine. Support HR Heretics Sponsor: Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics KEEP UP WITH DAVID, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN David: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidhanrahan/ Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — LINKS: Solarwinds: https://www.solarwinds.com/ — TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Introduction(00:37) David's Take on Transform(03:33) The Grittiness of HR(05:42) Value of In-Person Relationships(08:50) Transform's Community Session(10:36) Blackjack, Craps, and the Games(11:28) David's New Role at SolarWinds(15:35) Sponsor: Metaview(17:29) G Suite vs Microsoft Outlook(18:00) Juggling New Job Responsibilities(20:35) Katie Burke's Self Reflection(22:18) Painful Changes and Lessons from Multiple CHRO Roles(25:03) The Weird Moment for L & D(28:55) Effective Leadership Development(33:41) David's BHAG: Leadership Development(35:29) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com
Tue, March 18, 2025
In another edition of 'Dear Heretics' Nolan and Kelli tackle talent calibration sessions. They address how HR needs to balance facilitation versus providing opinions and establish clear processes beforehand. They explore calibration's dual purpose: ensuring consistent evaluation standards and developing forward-looking talent plans. Above all, calibration needs to be an iterative process requiring transparency and company-wide understanding to avoid becoming toxic or misunderstood. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/ HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine. Support HR Heretics Sponsor: Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — TIMESTAMPS: (00:13) Intro (00:56) The Fine Line of HR Facilitation (01:46) Setting Process Rules Before Calibration (03:35) HR Should Opine with Objectivity (05:47) The New York Times Test (06:26) Sponsor: Metaview (08:20) Purpose of Calibration Sessions (09:37) Importance of Forward-Looking Discussions (10:35) Calibration Process Flow (12:16) Transparency Across the Company (13:10) Building the Calibration Muscle (14:27) Real-World Implementation (15:30) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com
Thu, March 13, 2025
Kelli and Nolan are joined by Roxanne Petraeus, CEO of Ethena, to talk about her journey from the US army to founding an HR tech company. She shares her views on leadership, the distinction between training and learning, and building a culture of intellectual meritocracy in a remote-first environment. The conversation explores how compliance training evolved from her military experiences, covers the role of Chief People Officers, and reveals how military discipline shaped her approach to building high-performance tech cultures without superficial perks. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/ HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine. — 📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess Support HR Heretics Sponsor: Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics KEEP UP WITH ROXANNE, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Roxanne: https://www.linkedin.com/in/roxanne-bras-petraeus-2292b8109/ Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — RECOMMENDATIONS: Ethena: https://www.goethena.com/ ‘We’re not recording’ podcast with Roxanne Petraeus: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLTcvuUiuTe9nFXLMIPy4gjHv67-bFl8Do — TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro (01:36) How Roxanne ended up in the Army (03:29) Career path from Army to McKinsey to founder (04:29) The insight behind Ethena's founding (07:11) Problems with traditional LMS approaches (10:04) Debate on employee vs company-driven learning (14:00) Making training relevant to day-to-day work (15:43) Sponsor: Metaview (17:38) The best L&D: great managers and top performers (20:47) Learning from people vs structured courses
Tue, March 11, 2025
Friend of the pod Colleen McCreary discusses some big news: her return to a CPO role at a remote-first public company (Confluent). She shares insights on navigating the first 90 days, organizational change, implementing a company-wide initiative to eliminate unnecessary processes, and gearing up for lots of 1:1s. Colleen, Kelli, and Nolan discuss transparent leadership, building community in remote environments, and bringing humanity to workplace policies—all while balancing the challenges of joining an established company as an executive with a public reputation *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/ HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine. — 📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess — Support HR Heretics Sponsor: Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics KEEP UP WITH COLLEEN, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Colleen: https://www.linkedin.com/in/colleenmccrearychiefpplofficer Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro (2:28) Remote Work Authenticity Challenges During the Pandemic (5:19) How the CPO Role Has Changed in Today's Market (10:14) Joining a Public Company as CPO with a Public Persona (14:29) Sponsor: Metaview (19:51) Creating a "Remove the B******t" Company OKR (25:41) Building Community in Remote-First Organizations (28:25) Bringing Humanity to Crisis Response in HR (30:17) Tackling Compensation Transparency as a New CPO (31:02) Continuous Improvement Over Perfection in Leadership (37:25) Balancing Multiple CPO Responsibilities While Driving Change This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com
Thu, March 06, 2025
Nolan and Kelli discuss tech job search strategies, emphasizing proactive networking over mass applications., and recommend targeted outreach with concise value propositions that highlight business impact. They stress building relationships both inside and outside your company, maintaining professional connections, and adapting to a job market that increasingly demands quantifiable contributions. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/ HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine. — 📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess — Support HR Heretics Sponsor: Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro (00:13) Struggling to Find a New Role (01:02) Principle #1: Avoid Applying to Jobs (01:46) The "Rolling Process" Approach (02:34) Current Job Market Reality Check (03:28) Value Proposition Design (03:50) Targeted Application Strategy (04:13) Cold Outreach Framework (05:06) Why Cold Outreach Works (06:15) Two Categories of Job Hunting (06:41) Maximizing Your Current Role (07:45) Sponsor: Metaview (09:39) External Network Building (10:41) When You Need a Job Urgently (11:28) Research-Based Approach (12:13) LinkedIn Networking Strategy (12:52) The Best Time to Look for a Job (13:39) Quantifying Business Value (14:30) Cold Outreach Framework (16:00) Referrals and Resource Lists (16:42) The Importance of Preparation (17:11) Current Job Market Assessment (18:07) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com
Tue, March 04, 2025
Nolan and Kelli talk about Jamie Dimon's leaked critique of remote work while examining the collision between post-pandemic workplace expectations and corporate realities. They explore leadership's critical role in employee engagement, the shifting talent marketplace, and how organizational culture ultimately determines whether flexibility becomes an asset or liability in modern workplaces. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/ HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine. — 📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess Support HR Heretics Sponsor: Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — REFERENCE: Nolan’s post on LinkedIn regarding Jamie Dimon: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/nolan-church_ceos-are-done-with-remote-work-this-is-activity-7296192450493120514-xCMH/ TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro(00:50) Thoughts on the leaked JP Morgan CEO video on remote work(02:08) On remote work flexibility(02:25) Red Pill Moment?(03:35) Was JP Morgan recording was intentional?(05:34) Talent expectations and companies returning to the office(06:51) Sponsor: Metaview(08:45) Human adaptation to remote work(09:58) The importance of leadership in work engagement(11:07) Missionary versus mercenary motivation(12:45) Thoughts on leadership and market conditions(12:51) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com
Fri, February 28, 2025
In this installment of AI Corner, Siadhal Magos, the CEO of Metaview, and Nolan Church discuss 'agentic AI' in a practical and relevant way for HR pros. They dig into what agentic AI is today vs future expectations and debate current tool limitations. They also share their current AI tool stack, workflows, and their overall approach to viewing AI like a 'junior colleague'. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/ HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine. — 📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess Support HR Heretics Sponsor: Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics KEEP UP WITH SIADHAL, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Siadhal: https://www.linkedin.com/in/siadhal/ Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro (00:55) What is Agentic AI? (02:05) AI Decision-Making Autonomy (03:16) Examples of Traditional AI Workflows (04:20) Behind the AI "Magic" (05:06) Experience with ChatGPT Operator (07:13) Context and Expertise Gap (10:35) Early Innings of AI Development (11:39) Improving AI Interactions (13:19) Garbage In, Garbage Out (13:27) Sponsor: Metaview (16:44) The Shift to Agentic AI (18:23) AI Thinking and Collaboration (19:25) Human-Machine Adaptation (20:27) Machines Becoming More Human-Like (22:23) Daily AI Stack (25:08) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com
Tue, February 25, 2025
Kelli and Nolan talk about candidate feedback during hiring processes and debate whether companies should provide feedback to rejected candidates, especially those who've invested significant time in interviews and assignments. They discuss recruiter bandwidth challenges and liability concerns while advocating for human-centered feedback approaches, especially for onsite candidates, plus advice on requesting feedback gracefully. *Email us your ‘Dear Heretics’ questions: hrheretics@turpentine.co **For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/ HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine . — Support HR Heretics Sponsor: Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics — KEEP UP WITH ANNA, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ — TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro(00:13) The Core Issue: Lack of Feedback After Extensive Interviews(01:00) The Reality of Lean Teams and Bandwidth Constraints(02:15) The Liability Concern: Company Policy Against Sharing Feedback(03:00) A Shift in Perspective: Treating Candidates With Respect(04:06) The Importance of Feedback After On-Site Interviews(04:20) Setting Candidate Expectations: Establishing a "Contract"(05:49) Clarity of Identity: Defining Company Approach to Feedback(06:55) The Long-Term Impact of Thoughtful Candidate Experience(07:13) A Practical Approach: Phone Calls for On-Site Candidates(08:47) Sponsor: Metaview(10:41) Importance of Live Feedback(11:01) Worst-Case Scenarios and the Skill of Giving Feedback(12:41) Recruiters as People People - Navigating Difficult Conversations(13:29) The Need for Recruiters to Develop Hard Conversation Skills(14:00) HR BP skills on the recruiting team(14:44) The Candidate's Perspective: Managing Expectations(15:32) How to Ask for Feedback(16:28) Expanding Your Network and Paying it Forward(18:11) Don't Underestimate How Small the World Is(18:34) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit <a href="https://hrheretics.sub
Thu, February 20, 2025
Iain Roberts, Global Head of Employee Experience at Airbnb, discusses experimenting in HR in 2025, the design-thinking reshaping organizational structures, and why CEO Brian Chesky’s ‘Founder Mode’ is much misinterpreted. Iain covers innovative approach to flexible work, cross-functional alignment, and treating employee programs as evolving products requiring continuous refinement. *Email us your ‘Dear Heretics’ questions: hrheretics@turpentine.co **For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/ HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine . — Support HR Heretics Sponsor: Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics — LINK/S: Airbnb: https://www.airbnb.com/ — REFERENCE/S: NVIDIA’s Jensen Huang says that IT will ‘become the HR of AI agents’: https://fortune.com/2025/01/09/nvidia-ceo-jensen-huangt-take-over-hr-ai-agents/ — KEEP UP WITH IAIN, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Iain: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robertsiain/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ — TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro (00:13) From Designer to HR Leader: Iain's Journey (01:15) "Everything Needs to Be Designed" Philosophy (03:09) Designing Systems of People and Structures (04:47) Bringing Design Thinking to HR at Airbnb (08:03) Airbnb's One Roadmap Approach: 7,000 People, One Focus (07:21) Top-Down vs. Bottom-Up Culture & Innovation (10:26) Tactically Transforming an HR Team with Design Thinking (11:47) Treating HR as Products and Services (13:14) The Future of HR Product Management (14:36) Sponsor: Metaview (16:30) Founder Mode: Misinterpretations and Brian Chesky's Approach (23:00) Airbnb's Shift to a Single Product Roadmap (26:54) Design-Led Culture and Attention to Detail at Airbnb (28:48) Prototyping & Iterating with Human Experiences:
Tue, February 18, 2025
Anna Binder, Head of People at Asana, shares her journey as an HR leader, her approach to board membership at CultureAmp, and her philosophy on talent management. The discussion covers the nitty gritty of preparing and contributing in board meetings, long-term DEI initiatives, and the importance of authentic leadership in HR, particularly highlighting the value of playing the long game in organizational development. *Email us your ‘Dear Heretics’ questions: hrheretics@turpentine.co **For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/ HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine . — Support HR Heretics Sponsor: Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics — LINK/S: Asana: https://asana.com/ — KEEP UP WITH ANNA, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Anna: https://www.linkedin.com/in/annabinder/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ — TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro(01:47) Becoming a Board Member at Culture Amp(05:33) The Importance of Taking Calls and Building Relationships(07:10) How to Prepare for and Participate Effectively on a Board(11:48) Examples of "Operating" vs. Asking the Right Questions as a Board Member(14:57) Sponsor: Metaview(16:57) Anna's Experience Building MuleSoft(19:00) Navigating Disagreements and Being "Invited to Exit"(21:12) Sharing the News and the Importance of Transparency(22:50) Finding the Right Fit and the Role of Values(25:57) Joining Asana(26:26) Ensuring Alignment During the Interview Process(29:35) How to Maintain Stamina and Interest Over a Long Tenure(31:14) Examples of Attention to Detail and Values Alignment at Asana(31:46) Examining the CEO's Calendar During Interviews(33:05) Anna's Controversial Recruiting Philosophy(33:16) Recruiting Top Talent(35:42) DEI at Asana: Long-Term Vision and Business Outcomes(39:38) The Importance of Being in the Right Room(40:09) Playing the Long Game on DEI(41:59) Encouraging People to Enter the Field(44:31) Outro <br/
Fri, February 14, 2025
Nolan and Kelli talk about retaining top-performing employees (the crucial 1%) and emphasize that compensation alone isn't sufficient; leaders must combine verbal recognition, proactive compensation strategies, transparency, and genuine appreciation. They stress the importance of eliminating compensation anxiety for these key employees and building long-term relationships, and argue that thoughtful, personalized treatment of top talent ultimately benefits both the individual and organization. Email us your ‘Dear Heretics’ questions: hrheretics@turpentine.co **For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/ HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine . — Support HR Heretics Sponsor: Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics — KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Introdu(00:13) Defining the Top 1%(00:57) Shifting Trends in Job Offers and Compensation(02:04) Appreciating Top Talent(03:01) The Importance of Appreciation Beyond Monetary Compensation(03:56) Balancing Appreciation and Competitive Compensation(05:02) Transparency in Compensation Decisions(07:49) Sponsor: Metaview(09:43) Four Pillars: Appreciation, Thoughtfulness, Proactivity, and Transparency(12:08) The Expectation of Transparency(12:43) Long-Term Career Involvement with Top Performers(14:21) Reciprocity in Employer-Employee Relationships(14:53) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com
Wed, February 12, 2025
Nolan and Kelli talk about AI's role in hiring processes, sparked by Anthropic's policy against using AI in job applications. They explore the tension between AI as a valuable tool and its potential for interview deception, ultimately advocating for a more integrated approach where candidates openly demonstrate their AI usage skills rather than attempting to restrict or hide it. Email us your ‘Dear Heretics’ questions: hrheretics@turpentine.co **For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/ HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine . — Support HR Heretics Sponsor: Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics — KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — RECOMMENDATIONS FOR THIS PODCAST: Gizmodo Article: “ Anthropic Wants You to Use AI—Just Not to Apply for Its Jobs” https://gizmodo.com/anthropic-wants-you-to-use-ai-just-not-to-apply-for-its-jobs-2000558490 Anthropic: https://www.anthropic.com/ Final Round AI: https://www.finalroundai.com/ Sora: https://openai.com/sora/ — TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro(01:26) Initial Reactions and Perspectives to Anthropic’s Policy(02:23) AI as a Tool vs. Replacement for Human Skills(03:36) AI-Powered Interview Cheating.(04:11) Practical AI Usage Throughout the Application Process(06:21) Sponsor: Metaview(08:15) Authenticity vs. AI Assistance(10:09) Polarities and Gradients of AI Usage(11:16) The Problem of Cheating and the "Open Book" Interview Approach(12:30) Using AI During In-Person Interviews(13:33) Adapting to AI in Hiring and Education(14:18) Audience Engagement and Future Solutions(15:03) Wrap This is a public episode. If you woul
Fri, February 07, 2025
Entrepreneur Jesse Tinsley - founder of Employer.com and other successful tech ventures - discusses his consortium's bid to acquire TikTok alongside MrBeast. The dialogue with Kelli and Nolan examines the philosophical and practical implications of executive compensation reduction during corporate restructuring, while illustrating how digital discourse can evolve into substantive debate when moved from social media to direct dialogue. *Email us your ‘Dear Heretics’ questions: hrheretics@turpentine.co **For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/ HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine . — Support HR Heretics Sponsor: Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics — LINK/S: Employer.com: https://www.employer.com/ — KEEP UP WITH JESSE, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Jesse: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jessetinsley Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro(01:55) Update on the TikTok Acquisition(02:25) Motivation Behind Acquiring TikTok with Mr. Beast(04:38) How TikTok Fits into Jesse's Business Portfolio(07:07) Discussion on Executive Compensation and Layoffs(10:28) Specifics on Executive Salary Cuts(11:00) Sponsor: Metaview(12:57) Executive Compensation(15:34) The Importance of Leadership Accountability(18:16) Cultural Impact of Executive Pay Cuts(19:12) Wrap(21:05) Outro This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com
Tue, February 04, 2025
Adam Ward (founding partner, Growth by Design) discusses the current landscape of executive hiring in people/talent roles, particularly the prevalence of "pocket listings" - positions filled through private networks rather than public postings. He offers insights into what CEOs value in people leaders (business-driven mindset, operational excellence), how candidates can effectively navigate professional networks, and the importance of structured hiring processes. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/ HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine. — 📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess Support HR Heretics Sponsor: Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics LINKS: Growth By Talent: https://www.gbdtalent.com/ — KEEP UP WITH ADAM, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Adam: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adampward/ Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — REFERENCE: “Give and Take” by Adam Grant: https://adamgrant.net/book/give-and-take/ — TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro (00:57) The "Pocket Listing" Phenomenon in Executive Hiring (02:22) Unpacking the Reasons Behind Covert Hiring Practices (03:59) Practical Strategies for Candidates to Expand Their Networks and Access Hidden Opportunities (05:03) Cultivating a Personal "Board of Advisors" for Career Guidance and Opportunity Awareness (08:41) The Importance of "Give and Take" in Networking and Building Mutually Beneficial Relationships (09:43) Defining the Qualities of a Successful Head of People/Talent: The CEO's Perspective (11:10) A "Business-Driven" Approach to HR Leadership (13:04) Moving Beyond Quantity to Focus on Quality (16:04) Sponsor: Metaview (18:07) Identifying Must-Have Skills and Experiences for a Head of Pe
Thu, January 30, 2025
Kelli and Nolan examine the art of building authentic company values. Through real-world experiences, they reveal the methodical process of transforming abstract principles into tangible organizational behavior that drives meaningful cultural change. *Email us your ‘Dear Heretics’ questions: hrheretics@turpentine.co **For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/ HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine . —Support HR Heretics Sponsor: Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics — KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro(00:13) Discussion on Company Values(01:30) Importance of Leadership and Top Performer Alignment(02:19) Company Core Values and Honesty(02:43) Scaling Culture in Founder-Led Companies(03:46) Making the Intangible Tangible(04:23) Revealed vs. Stated Character(04:40) The Benefit of Outsourcing the Process of Developing Company Values(05:54) Company Values Are Always Evolving(06:27) The Goldilocks Approach(07:48) Sponsor: Metaview(09:52) Quick Process to Rough Draft(10:20) Doordash Example(11:56) Pendo's Working Committee and Bottoms Up Approach(13:19) The Importance of Timing(14:25) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com
Tue, January 28, 2025
Kelli and Nolan tackle a listener's frustration with a painfully slow reorg process, diving into the eternal tension between perfect planning and actually running the business. When HR and legal reviews stretch into week four, should you keep waiting for perfection or pull the trigger? Towards the end of the episode, Kelli and Nolan get into brass tacks offering tactical timelines to execute a reorg based on hypothetical examples. *Email us your ‘Dear Heretics’ questions: hrheretics@turpentine.co **For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/ HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine . —Support HR Heretics Sponsor: Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics — KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — Timestamps: (00:00) Intro (00:19) The Reorg Dilemma (00:56) Challenges in Big Companies (03:00) Balancing Perfection and Speed (04:43) HR & Legal Risk (08:55) Sponsor: Metaview (10:49) Employment Lawyers’ Limitations (12:33) Intellectual Trap (13:28) Workshopping Different Scenarios (15:23) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com
Thu, January 23, 2025
Tom Clayton, COO of Peek, shares his unconventional playbook for building world-class teams. From his data-driven "employee attribute chart" to his rule of "don't be a brand b***h," Tom breaks down how he's scaled companies from 50 to 2000+ employees. He dishes on everything from why he sends champagne to candidates' hotel rooms to why he encourages employees to quit and start their own companies. If you’re listening on podcast platforms, be sure to check out our Substack or YouTube channel to see Tom’s framework slides onscreen: Substack: https://hrheretics.substack.com/p/smart-hiring-with-tom-clayton YouTube: Smart Hiring with Tom Clayton *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/ HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine. — 📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess Support HR Heretics Sponsor: Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — RELATED LINK: The Sales Acceleration Formula: Using Data, Technology, and Inbound Selling to go from $0 to $100 Million: https://www.amazon.com/Sales-Acceleration-Formula-Technology-Inbound/dp/1119047072 — TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro(00:37) The Employee Attribute Chart Explained(03:41) Contextual Attributes(05:00) Answering with Cues vs. Direct Questions(10:46) Training Others on the Attribute Chart(11:28) The Value of Multiple Interviews(13:15) Emotional Investment in the Group(14:17) Speed Dating Analogy for Intervie
Tue, January 21, 2025
Kelli and Nolan unpack the delicate art of layering – that awkward moment when someone gets a new boss – while calling out the pitfalls of secret searches and celebrating the often-forgotten heroes of early startup days. Equal parts tactical advice and therapy session for growing companies. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/ HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine. — 📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess Support HR Heretics Sponsor: Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro(00:13) Layering Question on Dear Heretics(02:06) Initial Thoughts on Layering(02:58) Human Aspect of Layering(03:43) Importance of Coaches & Advisors(04:00) New Hires vs Existing Employees(07:16) Confidential Search on Layering(10:08) Sponsor: Metaview(12:02) Handling Layering: CEO/CPO Perspective(14:13) Expanding Roles in Startups(16:00) New Executives and Fail States(16:57) The Shepherd Role of a Leader(17:18) The Layered Employee's Perspective(18:05) Two Paths: Spiteful vs. Gracious(20:18) Building Something Bigger Than Yourself(20:59) Maturity Matters(21:20) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com
Fri, January 17, 2025
Think AI is just about robots summarizing your emails? Think again. Metaview co-founder and CEO Siadhal Magos reveals how AI's real impact in an org is making sense of workplace conversations, performance reviews, and all the messy human stuff that HR deals with. Start recognizing the opportunities presented by ‘unstructured data’ to transform HR from subjective guesswork to data-driven decisions, without losing the human touch. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/ HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine. — 📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess Support HR Heretics Sponsor: Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics KEEP UP WITH SIADHAL, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Siadhal: https://www.linkedin.com/in/siadhal/ Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro(00:52) Why Unstructured Data Matters in the AI Era(02:18) Frustrations with Structured Data Entry(03:24) Making Sense of Data at Scale (04:01) Data is Everywhere(04:55) AI's Ability to Read Data(06:25) Moving Towards Objectivity with AI(07:16) Using Digital Exhaust for Team Building(09:01) Sponsor: Metaview(11:13) What if the AI Reads Wrong?(11:56) Human in the Loop(12:24) Levels of AI Autonomy(14:54) Problems, Missteps, and Best Practices(15:44) The Gradient of AI Implementation(16:47) AI and Human Nuance(17:33) Capturing Unstructured Data is the Foundation for AI (19:13) Garbage in, Garbage out(19:22) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com
Wed, January 15, 2025
Nolan and Kelli talk about the culture shock of moving from corporate behemoths to the startup wild west. They share battle-tested wisdom on surviving the transition - from mastering the art of founder relationships to embracing the (sometimes brutal) transparency demands of startup employees. Along the way, they reveal how corporate luxuries like two-hour gym breaks get replaced by the exhilarating but exhausting reality of building something from scratch. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/ HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine. — 📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess Support HR Heretics Sponsor: Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro(01:30) Understanding Startup Culture(03:26) Founder Relationship Importance(03:52) Pre-Start Relationship Building(05:35) Importance of Being "One with the People"(07:04) Danger of Being Viewed as the Enemy(08:25) Startup Employees Being Smart & Critical(09:19) Connecting with Early Employees(09:30) Sponsor: Metaview(11:01) Understanding "Sacred Cows"(12:28) Tactical Advice - Meeting Everyone(12:57) Goals of Meeting Everyone(14:00) Context Switching Exhaustion(14:25) Energy Management Importance(15:24) Non-Negotiable Self-Care(16:00) Wrap Up This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com
Fri, January 10, 2025
Kelli and Nolan start with a heartfelt discussion about LA fires before diving into the art of handling CEO mandates for attrition targets. They reveal insider strategies for transforming harsh directives into meaningful performance frameworks, while warning against becoming the dreaded "person of no." *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/ HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine. — 📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess Support HR Heretics Sponsor: Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics RELATED PODCAST: KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro(01:17) Offer of Support for the California Wildfires(03:44) Dear Heretics(04:00) Question on Mandated Attrition Targets(05:15) Contextualizing Performance Targets(06:32) Genesis of these Performance Discussions(07:00) Examples of Poor Implementation: Tesla's RIFs(08:03) Sponsor: Metaview(10:05) RIFs versus Performance(10:42) How to respond to a CEO who says fire the bottom 5%(12:40) The Importance of Defining 'Why'(13:23) CEOs and the complexity of execution(14:00) Reframing the Problem for CEO's(14:31) The tactical anxiety of HR leaders(15:42) Pre and Post Pandemic Environments(16:23) The danger of being the "no" person/team(17:18) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com
Thu, January 09, 2025
Colin Zima, former Looker exec turned Omni CEO, reveals how he runs a 65-person Series A startup with no HR or G&A team. Learn why he believes in minimal bureaucracy, why founders should do the "dirty work," and what really breaks after a Google acquisition. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/ HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine. — 📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess Support HR Heretics Sponsor: Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics KEEP UP WITH COLIN, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Colin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/colinzima Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — CHECK OUT: Omni: https://omni.co/ — TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Introduction(01:44) No G&A at Omni(04:50) Learning by Doing(09:10) Maximizing Roles (10:23) The Need for G&A (12:53) Sponsor: Metaview(14:49) Benefits of Doing the Work(15:32) Hiring a People Leader(18:19) Contractors vs FTEs(20:39) In-Office vs Remote (23:08) Homogenous Culture (26:25) Recruiting for Non-Networked People (29:31) Performance Management (32:24) Sales Ops and Performance (34:47) Unique Recruiting at Omni (37:00) Looker Acquisition by Google(42:24) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com
Thu, January 02, 2025
From Square to Nextdoor, Bryan Power reveals why copying Big Tech's playbook might be your biggest mistake. Find out why Square banned hiring from the payments industry while building a payments company. Discover how conventional wisdom about senior talent can become startup kryptonite and why the safe choice isn't always the smart choice. Bryan Power is a veteran Silicon Valley People executive who's shaped talent strategy at tech giants like Google and Yahoo, built Square from 150 employees, and now leads People at Nextdoor where he champions innovative approaches to hiring and leadership development. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/ HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine. — 📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess Support HR Heretics Sponsor: Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics KEEP UP WITH BRYAN, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Bryan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bryanpower Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — CHECK OUT: Nextdoor: https://nextdoor.com/ — TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro (00:48) Nextdoor Leadership Transition (02:10) Founder's Mentality & Return (04:03) Six Years at Nextdoor - Career Journey (05:29) Growth vs. Turnaround Experience (07:59) The False Signal of Company Logos (10:29) Square's Early Days & Recruiting (12:25) Leadership Training at Square (15:07) Sponsor: Metaview (17:01) Culture and Training Truths (21:30) Innovation vs. Industry Experience (25:59) The Pattern Matching Trap (29:39) Talent Density Discussion (33:58) Performance Management & Up-leveling (40:34)) Big Company vs. Startup Dynamics (43:07) Aligning with Different Leadership Styles (47:14) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other s
Tue, December 31, 2024
Happy New Year from HR Heretics! Together, we've built something extraordinary: a community of forward-thinking HR professionals who dare to question the status quo, welcome straight talk, and thrive on healthy debate. In today's special year-end episode, we're sharing some of our top moments, most controversial takes, and the conversations that simply blew our minds with new approaches to people, hiring, managing, and shaping the culture of high performing teams. Think of this as your ultimate HR Heretics highlight reel – where spicy takes meet practical wisdom. So whether you're a longtime heretic or just discovering us today, buckle up. Come January 2nd 2025, we'll be back with new guests. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/ HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine. — Support our Sponsor: Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics — KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — LINKS: Molly Graham: https://open.spotify.com/episode/3gegNOB1RSWuKofaWcjYWS?si=AGhfhyhgRsu8LSUlN7wtjg Tomas Tungusz: https://open.spotify.com/episode/1B4aYWnV9pJkcQuCgq1tTy?si=d-iRpEMrQX62JwiKQi9nGg Vijay Pendakur: https://open.spotify.com/episode/4ccUUyNPVUjBEc3V9h1SEf?si=LLhIXfbkSMaWaIyPnfHmfA Patty McCord: https://open.spotify.com/episode/2nHxmrGnGFJ23ropYPc4YE?si=9WzJ1VdnQjS4vlS7kbBy8A Andy Price: https://open.spotify.com/episode/2LmfYrgz58M1bjU4kj8t7i?si=UpCAZwNkR_SVg-29AY-_Zg Colleen McCreary: <a target="_bla
Fri, December 20, 2024
It’s been quite a year! Kelli and Nolan bare it all in their 2024 wrap-up. Get their must-read books, binge-worthy podcasts, and raw personal journeys - including Kelly's identity crisis and Nolan's toughest year yet. Plus, hear why 2025 might be the year to go 'risk on' and why your company's headcount could be holding you back. No fluff, just real talk from two HR leaders who've been there. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/ HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine. — 📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess Support HR Heretics Sponsor: Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro (00:53) Reflections on 2024 (07:24) Best of 2024 - Books (11:13) Best of 2024 - Podcasts (14:47) Sponsor: Metaview (16:20) The Real Talk: Our Raw 2024 Stories (19:16) Bold Predictions and Why 2025 Will Hit Different (28:45) That’s a Wrap 🎁 This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com
Wed, December 18, 2024
Are digital workers coming for your job? In this episode, Metaview CEO Siadhal Magos— our resident AI expert— breaks down the rise of AI-powered SDRs and what it means for the future of work. From 11x.ai's $75M raise to replace human sales reps, to broader implications for recruiting and tech roles, discover why VCs are betting big on AI labor. This is a candid discussion about job displacement, productivity gains, and why getting your hands dirty with AI might be your best career move. Discover how top HR leaders transformed from "the team in the corner" to invaluable business partners – and how you can, too. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/ HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine. — 📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess Support HR Heretics Sponsor: Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics KEEP UP WITH SIADHAL, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Siadhal: https://www.linkedin.com/in/siadhal/ Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — CHECK OUT: Metaview: https://www.metaview.ai/ — TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro (01:00) 11x.ai and Their Products (Alice & Mike) (02:03) Discussion of VCs' Interest in AI Labor Market (03:43) Labor vs Software Market Size Comparison (05:37) Evolution of Software Sales Models (07:18) Current State and Limitations of AI SDRs (08:15) Discussion of AI Job Displacement (09:01) Types of Roles Most Affected by AI (12:42) Historical Context of Automation in Tech (14:12) Future of Work and AI Integration (16:39) Sponsor: Metaview (17:59) Company Spending and Hiring Philosophy (20:00) Future of Recruiting and AI Integration (23:21) Historical Job Evolution and Future Opportunities (25:15) Importance of Hands-on AI Experience (26:24) Impact of AI on Engineering Productivity (27:05)
Fri, December 13, 2024
Ever wondered why your HR team feels like a bunch of separate countries? Tune in as Kelli and Nolan reveal why mixing your People Ops like finger paint might be the secret sauce to scaling – and why that messy feeling means you're actually crushing it. Discover how top HR leaders transformed from "the team in the corner" to invaluable business partners – and how you can, too. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/ HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine. — 📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess Support HR Heretics Sponsor: Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro (00:21) Dear Heretics Question: Cross-Functional HR Collaboration (01:11) The Missing Link in HR Teams (02:42) DoorDash's GM Model & Early Learnings (04:36) The Weekly Business Review Magic (05:13) Building One Cohesive HR Experience (07:09) The Color Gradient Approach to HR (08:01) Sponsor: Metaview (09:42) Pod Structure: SWAT Teams for People Ops (10:38) Embracing Regular Reorgs (11:44) Why Messy HR is Good HR (12:29) Mobility as a Silo-Breaker (13:05) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com
Thu, December 12, 2024
Chris Yeh – author, venture partner, and co-writer of Blitzscaling (with Reid Hoffman) – shares insights from his multifaceted career as a Silicon Valley insider. Yeh discusses staying relevant in tech, the necessary skill of unlearning, and why traveling with potential partners might be the best way to assess compatibility. Yeh gives our listeners a masterclass in adaptability and authentic leadership. Discover how top HR leaders transformed from "the team in the corner" to invaluable business partners – and how you can, too. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/ HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine. — 📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess Support HR Heretics Sponsor: Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics KEEP UP WITH CHRIS, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Chris: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisyeh Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — RELATED LINKS: * Infinite Learning - Why Unlearning Is The Critical Learning Skill | Chris Yeh | TEDxGrandviewHeights * The Lightning-Fast Path to Building Massively Valuable Companies: https://www.blitzscaling.com/ TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro (01:20) Chris's Palpable Energy (02:54) Passion vs Skill (04:08) Charisma in Leadership (08:09) Unlearning Old Things (14:29) Sponsor: Metaview (15:41) Writing a Book with Reid Hoffman (23:57) Picking and Prioritizing Projects (24:58) Staying Relevant (27:15) Blitzscaling: Adaptability & Resilience (32:21) What Would Chris Take Back from Blitzscaling? (37:01) Picking Companies as an Employee (40:25)</stron
Fri, December 06, 2024
Tired of hearing "HR needs to be more business-focused" without any real direction? In this episode, Kelli and Nolan cut through the noise with actionable insights from veteran CPO Jeff Diana. Learn why joining sales calls, understanding your P&L, and getting your hands dirty in customer support might be your secret weapons. Discover how top HR leaders transformed from "the team in the corner" to invaluable business partners – and how you can, too. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/ HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine. — 📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess Support HR Heretics Sponsor: Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics KEEP UP WITH JEFF, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Jeff: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeff-diana-a1906212/ Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro (01:14) HR is a Business Function: Action vs. Rhetoric (02:09) The Business-First Approach Do's and Don'ts (04:19) Fostering a Deeper Understanding of the Business (06:01) Product Certification and Experiential Learning (06:57) Understanding a Founder's Emotional Investment (even if it seems irrational) (08:52) Knowing the Numbers (13:14) Strategic Time Investment and Knowledge Acquisition (15:56) Including Customer Success in Knowledge Gathering (16:18) Sponsor: Metaview (17:38) Internal Reviews and Cross-Functional Collaboration (19:01) Internal Best Practices and Efficiency (20:47) Growing Fluidity Between HR and other Business Functions (21:14) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com
Tue, December 03, 2024
Ever wonder what happens when HR leaders get real about C-suite scrutiny? Join Kelli, Nolan and friend of the podcast, Colleen McCreary, as they spill the tea on transforming those dreaded "show me the numbers" moments into power moves. Turns out, the secret sauce isn't hiding from spreadsheets—it's owning them with style. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/ HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine. — 📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess Support HR Heretics Sponsor: Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics KEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro (01:14) Increasing Scrutiny of HR budgets from CEOs, CFOs, and Board Members (01:50) Stakeholder Management and Proactive Planning (04:42) Assume Good Intent and Take Ownership (06:35) Earned Trust and Common Experience (08:05) Sponsor: Metaview (09:12) New Roles and Re-establishing Credibility and the CFOs Perspective (10:36) Advice and Next Steps (12:07) Closing and Outro This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com
Tue, November 26, 2024
From pioneering parental leave strategies to 3 AM workout sessions, Warner Bros Discovery's SVP of People Donald Knight reveals how vulnerability, authenticity, and physical discipline shape exceptional leadership. Donald joins Kelli and Nolan in a candid conversation about evolving HR, squandered DEI opportunities, and building lasting relationships in hyper-growth environments. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/ HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine. — 📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess Support HR Heretics Sponsor: Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics RECOMMENDED PODCAST: 🎙️ Unpack Pricing - Dive into the dark arts of SaaS pricing with Metronome CEO Scott Woody and tech leaders. Learn how strategic pricing drives explosive revenue growth in today's biggest companies like Snowflake, Cockroach Labs, Dropbox and more. _ KEEP UP WITH DIDIER, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Donald: https://www.linkedin.com/in/donaldfknight/ Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro (00:39) Donald's initial reluctance to join HR and his perspective shift (02:32) Evolution of the HR profession (04:06) Pushback against employee-centric HR practices (07:22) The "war for talent" and its aftermath (10:53) The focus on immutable traits in diversity initiatives (14:05) Sponsor: Metaview (15:17) Importance of company stances and differentiation (19:15) Donald's paternity leave plan and its impact (25:35) The recruiting process and its unexpected outcomes (32:45) Donald's experience working with founders (39:50) Donald's favorite interview questions and their rationale (44:30) Donald's fitness journey and its importance (49:20) Wrap This is a public episode. If you woul
Thu, November 21, 2024
Didier Elzinga, Culture Amp's CEO, drops bombshell insights about why most leaders get growth wrong, reveals shocking data about manager vs. leader impact, and explains why treating feedback like an all-you-can-eat menu is destroying companies. Didier sits down with Kelli Dragovich and Nolan Church for a conversation about company culture, data, and mapping the world of work on two axes—trust versus mission. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/ HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine. — 📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess Support HR Heretics Sponsor: Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics RECOMMENDED PODCAST: 🎙️ Unpack Pricing - Dive into the dark arts of SaaS pricing with Metronome CEO Scott Woody and tech leaders. Learn how strategic pricing drives explosive revenue growth in today's biggest companies like Snowflake, Cockroach Labs, Dropbox and more. _ KEEP UP WITH DIDIER, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Didier: https://www.linkedin.com/in/didierelzinga Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro (02:50) From Harry Potter to CultureAmp CEO (04:51) CultureAmp in the Film Industry & Anonymous Feedback (08:40) Culture-First Companies & the Importance of Resilience (13:24) Current Trends in Employee Engagement & Expectations (15:12) Sponsor: Metaview (16:24) The Future of Employer-Employee Relationships (19:20) Enduring Truths in Culture & Growth (21:13) Growth, Ambiguity, and Leadership (23:54) Data-Driven Insights & Addressing Gender Gaps (27:20) The Director to VP Transition & Hard Lessons (31:45) Influencing Change & the Power of Data (33:55) The Value & Limitations of Engagement Surveys (37:45) Defining Strategy & the Feedback "Workout" (39:01) CultureAmp's Non-Negotiables & Growth (43:07) The Po
Tue, November 19, 2024
How do you navigate a founding CTO's transition when they're struggling to scale? Kelli and Nolan share hard-won wisdom on avoiding common pitfalls: don't rush to judgment, build trust first, and respect the deep bonds between founders. Instead of plotting replacements, focus on supporting growth - and remember that even the best transitions happen through relationships, not force. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/ HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine. — 📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess Support HR Heretics Sponsor: Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics KEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro (01:52) Avoid Premature Judgments (04:43) Nuance and Relationship Building (07:43) Sponsor Message: Metaview (08:55) Further Discussion: Investing in Existing Leadership (11:25) Additional Insights: Truth and Trust (13:02) The Risk of Premature Action (14:23) Summary and Emotional Dynamics (14:46) Board Involvement and Conclusion (15:37) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com
Thu, November 14, 2024
Melanie Naranjo, Chief People Officer at Ethena, joins Kelli and Nolan to tackle the surge in employee litigation facing modern companies. In an era where employees are increasingly using legal terms like 'discrimination' and 'retaliation,' how can companies balance protecting themselves from frivolous lawsuits while ensuring legitimate grievances are properly addressed? Explore how social media, changing workplace expectations, and generational shifts are fueling this trend, while offering practical insights on navigating these challenges. The conversation balances protecting employee rights with managing unfounded claims, providing valuable perspectives for HR professionals and business leaders trying to build fair, transparent workplaces. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/ HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine. — 📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess Support HR Heretics Sponsor: Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics KEEP UP WITH MELANIE, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Melanie: https://www.linkedin.com/in/melanie-naranjo/ Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro (00:10) Rising Employee Litigation (03:25) Traditional & Contrarian Responses (06:10) Deeper Issues & Lack of Transparency (07:30) Subjectivity & Company Liability (09:30) Litigation as a Trend & Setting Expectations (11:40) Employee Perspective & Open Dialogue (15:40) Company Burden & Employee Expectations (15:43) Sponsor: Metaview (18:10) Clear Expectations & Self-Selection (21:40) Internal Training & Consistency (23:20) Value of Community & Legal Counsel (26:10) Key Takeaways & The Bambi Golden Rule (28:08) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit <a href="https://hrheretics.su
Tue, November 12, 2024
Today Kelli and Nolan tackle a real-world HR career challenge: a candidate who received feedback that while they could handle their current role, the hiring manager was unsure about their ability to scale with company growth. Drawing from their extensive backgrounds in recruiting and HR leadership, they help listeners navigate everything from interview feedback to career growth, offering insider perspectives that challenge traditional HR thinking and empower professionals to take control of their career narrative. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/ HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine. — 📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess Support HR Heretics Sponsor: Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics KEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro (01:00) Dear Heretics Question - Scaling HR (02:45) Understanding Hiring Manager Requirements (04:24) Focus on Aptitude and Mindset (04:58) Recruiters' Current Challenges (06:13) Anticipate Feedback and Be Proactive (07:00) Highlight Strengths and Address Gaps (07:35) Proactive Preparation for Interviews (08:22) "Show Up With A Solution" (08:40) Sponsor: Metaview (09:52) Value of HRBP Experience (10:47) Don't Underestimate Your Experience (11:02) Narrative is Key (11:25) HR and Sales Parallels (11:46) Focus on Personal Narrative (12:13) Gain Experience Inside Your Company (13:36) Turn Feedback into Growth (14:05) Architect Your Own Experience (14:18) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com
Thu, November 07, 2024
How do you lead product when your CEO is the product visionary? Pendo's Chief Product Officer Trisha Price reveals the delicate dance of setting boundaries with founder-CEOs, the evolution of HR from gatekeeper to strategic partner, and why she uses AI to write letters to her 102-year-old grandmother. A candid conversation about power, trust, and the changing face of tech leadership. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/ HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine. 📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess Support HR Heretics Sponsor: Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics KEEP UP WITH CIARA, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Trisha: https://www.linkedin.com/in/trisha-price-3063081/ Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — LINKS: Pendo: https://www.pendo.io/ — TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro (01:20) Navigating a Founder-CEO, Product Guru Dynamic (03:00) Establishing Boundaries and Trust (06:40) The Importance of a Lengthy Recruiting Process (09:40) Assessing Product Leaders (14:40) Managing Stakeholder Input and AI Pressure (17:50) Managing the Tension Between Sales and Product (20:10) Navigating the AI Hype Cycle (24:20) Tricia's Personal Use of AI (26:40) Emerging Female Executives in Tech (30:40) The Future of Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DE&I) (36:00) The Evolution of HR and the "Department of No" (40:50) Working with a Great HR Leader (43:40) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com
Tue, November 05, 2024
On Election Day 2024, Nolan and Kelli examine how to navigate an increasingly polarized workplace during a contentious election. They discuss the decline of 'presidential' discourse, the impact of social media on political rhetoric, and practical strategies for business leaders managing divided teams. Their candid conversation offers insights on maintaining professionalism and unity when half the country faces inevitable disappointment. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/ HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine. — 📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess Support HR Heretics Sponsor: Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics KEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro (00:13) The Election and Preparing for a Divisive Outcome (04:00) Supporting the Winner (05:10) Homogeneous Support and the Undoing of Progress (08:12) Sponsor: Metaview (09:35) Social Media and Mental Health (10:20) The Addiction of Election Results (11:25) The Importance of Routine and Mental Health (12:20) TikTok and Chaos (12:21) Confusing Voting Laws (12:53) Historical Context and Election Integrity (14:00) Navigating a Divided Workplace (14:25) Setting Expectations Before the Election (18:04) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com
Thu, October 31, 2024
Former Dashlane HR leader Ciara Lakhani shares her unfiltered journey from New York to Paris tech, debunking myths about French business culture while revealing the art of cross-cultural leadership. From smoke breaks with works councils to earning trust through authenticity, Ciara offers practical wisdom on navigating international business dynamics and building bridges between American and French work cultures. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/ HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine. 📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess Support HR Heretics Sponsor: Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics KEEP UP WITH CIARA, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Ciara: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ciaralakhani/ Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — LINKS: Elevate People: https://elevatepeople.io/ — TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro (01:50) Ciara's move to Paris in 2020 (04:54) Challenges of being an HR exec in another country (05:53) Stereotype against French HR people (07:08) Communication style in France (08:30) Assimilating with French HR professionals (10:30) Generalizations about France (11:45) Learning the nuances of French labor laws (13:35) Navigating HR in different countries (15:18) Sponsor: Metaview (17:18) Punitive government in France (18:39) Being a translator in HR (19:50) Working with lawyers (20:45) Org politics in France (23:04) Unpacking the co-founder story (23:50) Org navigation and politics in Paris (27:30) Earning trust in a new culture (29:50) French tactics and meeting people where they are (30:00) Ciara's transition to being independent (31:38) Assimilating into French culture (33:00) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would
Tue, October 29, 2024
In this segment of HR Heretics, Kelli and Nolan discuss "empty suit executives" – a term coined by product leader Tyler Hogge, highlighting executives who manage from above but scoff at doing the work themselves. Is the era of the status-seeking executive dead? Explore how AI, increased competition, and evolving workplace culture are killing the 'empty suit' leader. From Silicon Valley's trenches to corporate boardrooms, discover why authenticity is replacing authority, and why rolling up your sleeves might be the new key to power in modern business. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine. -- Support HR Heretics Sponsor: Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics — KEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — LINK/S: The Empty Suit Executive by Tyler Hogge https://tylerhogge.com/2024/10/16/the-empty-suit-executive/ — TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro (00:29) The Empty Suit Executive (03:43) Shift in Management Styles and the Rise of Doers (05:34) Clash Between Founders and "Empty Suit" Executives (06:17) The Changing Dynamics of Large Tech Companies (07:17) Venture-Backed Companies as a Bellwether (09:00) Sponsor: MetaView (10:06) Recognizing Our Own "Empty Suit" Tendencies (11:30) Building a Brand and Leading by Example (12:40) New Era of Leadership (13:30) Adaptability in a Competitive Landscape (14:04) The Rise of AI (14:36) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com
Thu, October 24, 2024
In this episode, Nolan and Kelli talks with Silicon Valley prodigy turned seasoned operator and former Google director Jared Fliesler. From revolutionizing feedback systems to challenging the "founder mode" hype, Jared shares raw insights from his journey as Silicon Valley's youngest executive. But that's just the beginning – he also unveils the psychological trap keeping high achievers perpetually unfulfilled (hint: it's not what you think), and shares the counterintuitive secret to genuine satisfaction. Whether you're a startup founder, HR leader, or ambitious professional, this episode will fundamentally change how you think about performance, leadership, and success. Warning : your perspective on workplace traditions will never be the same. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine . 🔥 Apply to join over 400 Founders and Execs in the Turpentine Network: https://www.turpentinenetwork.co/ Support HR Heretics Sponsor: Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics KEEP UP WITH JARED, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Jared: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jaredsf/ Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — LINKS: First Call Coaching: https://www.firstcall.co/ — TIMESTAMPS: (00:13) Intro (00:59) Radical Performance Review Process (06:18) Getting the CEO on Board (08:48) People Operations as Core Business (10:20) The Move Away from Performance Reviews (10:50) Feedback Systems for Introverts (12:07) The Semantics of Performance Reviews (12:48) Experimenting with Performance Reviews (13:52) Founder Mode (19:18) Sponsor: Metaview (20:10) Copy-pasting Culture Decks (20:54) Revolt Against Traditional Management (21:46) Fandiger Mounder (22:16) Treating People Like Wrists (24:14) Being the Youngest Person in the Room (27:37) The Importance of EQ (28
Tue, October 22, 2024
In this candid episode of HR Heretics, Kelli and Nolan dive deep into workplace burnout and share vulnerable insights on maintaining resilience in high-pressure roles. From conquering impostor syndrome to escaping the corporate echo chamber, they offer practical strategies—like daily routines, nature walks, and building authentic relationships—while reminding leaders that it's okay not to have all the answers. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine. -- Support HR Heretics Sponsor: Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics — KEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro(01:20) Practical Approaches to Reducing Burnout01:48) Key Insights on Managing Professional Burnout(05:01) A Perspective on Failure(07:14) Confronting Negative Self-Talk in High-Pressure Roles(08:36) Sponsor: Metaview(09:48) Importance of Saying "I Don't Know"(10:17) Finding Balance: Avoiding Professional Extremes(12:53) Breaking Free from the Corporate Echo Chamber(14:08) The Signifiance of Strong Relationships(15:13) Sharing and Collaboration(16:34) The Tangible Nature of Energy(17:07) Understanding Energy's Impact in the Workplace(18:17) Gaining Fresh Perspectives Through History & Experience(19:00) Practicing Gratitude in Professional Life(20:09) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com
Thu, October 17, 2024
Peter Walker, Head of Insights at Carta, joins Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich for a round 2 discussion to talk about the hidden currents reshaping the startup world. From the brutal reality of today's hiring landscape to the unexpected reasons top companies avoid IPOs, Walker challenges conventional wisdom, exploring how the "Big Stay" phenomenon and emerging equity models are redefining employee-company relationships. With startling data on fund performance and company shutdowns, this conversation poses a provocative question: Are we witnessing the end of the startup golden age, or the birth of a new, leaner ecosystem? *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine . 🔥 Apply to join over 400 Founders and Execs in the Turpentine Network: https://www.turpentinenetwork.co/ Support HR Heretics Sponsor: Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics KEEP UP WITH PETER, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Peter: https://www.linkedin.com/in/peterjameswalker/ Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — LINKS: Carta: https://carta.com/data/ — TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro(00:29) Hiring Market Remains Brutal(05:06) Tenure Correlation in Layoffs(10:08) The "Big Stay"(10:15) Sponsor: Metaview(11:27) Venture Ecosystem Driven by Investor Returns(15:34) M&A Activity is Rising(17:22) Emerging Fund Managers Under Pressure(19:37) Employee Compensation Trends(21:16) Company Valuations(25:13) Dissonance Between IPO Market and Public Market Performance(29:14) Series A and Beyond Round Activity(32:05) Resetting Expectations in Venture(37:38) Emerging Models for Employee Equity(40:23) Equity Returning to the Pool(42:16) The 90-Day Exercise Window(43:48) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrh
Wed, October 16, 2024
In a world where AI blurs the line between genuine skill and digital deception, HR professionals face an ethical minefield. As candidates leverage AI to cheat interviews and fake applicants infiltrate tech companies, the very fabric of recruitment is being tested. Kelli and Nolan explore the unsettling convergence of technology and human ambition, challenging us to redefine trust, authenticity, and competence in the modern workplace. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine. -- Support HR Heretics Sponsor: Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics — KEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro (00:13) Candidates Cheating on Interviews with AI (02:40) Interviewing is High Stakes (04:07) AI is Getting Better (05:21) AI Native Candidates (06:49) The Importance of Human Qualities (7:44) Sponsor: Metaview (08:56) Quality Over Quantity (10:18) Referrals and Bias (11:04) Soft Skills Are Hard to Replace (11:17) Fake Candidates (12:43) The Need for Verification (13:36) Poor Recruiting Practices (14:02) Proof of Personhood (14:32) A Chasm of Technology (15:15) Expect the Unexpected (16:02) Awareness is the First Step (16:19) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com
Thu, October 10, 2024
Seasoned executive recruiter and venture capitalist Andy Price joins Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich for an inside-the-room look at the intricate dance of hiring, retaining, and evolving top-tier talent. Andy has assembled leadership teams for companies like Snowflake, DocuSign, Confluent, Amplitude, and ServiceNow. From the critical role of empathy in leadership transitions to the long-term value of investing in talent development, Price's insights challenge listeners preconcieved notions about hiring and maintaining world-class execs. This episode is a compelling exploration of how the right people, in the right roles, with the right support, can transform good companies into great ones. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine . 🔥 Apply to join over 400 Founders and Execs in the Turpentine Network: https://www.turpentinenetwork.co/ Support HR Heretics Sponsor: Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics KEEP UP WITH ANDY, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Andy: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andyprice1/ Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — LINKS: Artisanal Ventures: https://artisanalv.com/ — TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro (00:39)Why is the hit rate for execs so low? (03:47) How to mitigate a bad executive outcome (04:18) The Artisanal process to mitigate a bad outcome (07:44) Back channels in executive recruiting (11:05) When should a CEO back channel? (12:40) How many back channels are too many? (14:00) Dealing with personality fit issues after hiring an exec (16:34) Sponsor: Metaview (17:46) The importance of onboarding and post-hire support (18:47) How to vet search firms (22:37) Name-dropping in executive recruiting (25:13) Founders trying to run searches on their own (29:05) The importance of staying close with search firms (30:13) Hiring for experience vs. trajectory (34:16) The importance of orchestration in execu
Wed, October 09, 2024
As tech giants like Microsoft dismantle DEI teams, this segment probes the industry's true commitment to diversity. Are we witnessing the death of corporate DEI or its evolution? Kelli and Nolan dissect the disconnect between lofty promises and marginal progress, questioning whether current approaches are effective, and challenge listeners to envision a "Chapter Two" for DEI—one that prioritizes authentic inclusion over mere metrics. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine . 🔥 Apply to join over 400 Founders and Execs in the Turpentine Network: https://www.turpentinenetwork.co/ Support HR Heretics Sponsor: Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics KEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro (00:20) Microsoft Fires DEI Team: A Growing Trend in Tech (01:01) Conflicting Messages: Microsoft's DEI Stance Analyzed (03:16) Evaluating DEI Tactics: A Decade in Review (04:26) Early Intervention: Google's Approach to Long-Term DEI (05:42) The Missing Piece: Lack of Alternative DEI Strategies (07:28) Questioning Tech's DEI Commitment (08:10) Recognizing DEI's Cultural Impact (09:40) Chapter Two of DEI: Hoping for Creative New Approaches (10:32) Sponsor: Metaview (11:43) Progress in Workplace Inclusivity (13:35) Rethinking DEI Implementation (14:10) Leading the Way in DEI Innovation (15:31) The Need for Qualitative DEI Measures (16:15) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com
Thu, October 03, 2024
In this episode of HR Heretics, dive into the world of HashiCorp's HR innovation with Christine Centa, as she unveils the challenges of scaling a remote-first culture, navigating post-IPO transitions, and embracing AI in recruiting. Discover with Kelli, Nolan and Christine how transparency, data-driven decisions, and a willingness to swear occasionally are reshaping modern tech workplaces. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine . 🔥 Apply to join over 400 Founders and Execs in the Turpentine Network: https://www.turpentinenetwork.co/ Support HR Heretics Sponsors: Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to http://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy. Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics KEEP UP WITH CHRISTINE, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Christine: https://www.linkedin.com/in/christine-centa-0a809b7/ Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — LINKS: Hashicorp: https://www.hashicorp.com/ — TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro (00:59) Christine's Approach to HR and Compensation Trends (03:40) Compensation and Equity in a Macroeconomic Environment (07:12) The Importance of Recruiter Feedback (07:35) Compensation and Internal Equity (10:49) The Challenges of Changing Equity Plans (11:30) The Trade-Offs of One-Year Grants (12:27) Balancing Retention and Performance (12:37) Stepped Approaches to Equity Grants (15:57) Sponsor: Planful | Metaview (18:02) The Importance of Transparency and Frequent Check-Ins (18:52) Predicting Attrition and Hiring (19:57) The Shift to Public
Tue, October 01, 2024
This HR Heretics segment dives headfirst into the controversy surrounding Mr. Beast's leaked 36-page employee manual. Join Kelli, Nolan and friend of the podcast, Colleen McCreary, as as they unpack this viral document that's part survival guide, part corporate manifesto, with a dash of unapologetic ambition. Is it a brilliantly authentic approach to leadership or a recipe for workplace burnout? *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine. -- Support HR Heretics Sponsors: Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy. Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics — KEEP UP WITH COLLEEN, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Colleen: https://www.linkedin.com/in/colleenmccrearychiefpplofficer/ Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro (01:18) Mr. Beast's leaked document (03:58) Praising clarity in workplace expectations (05:06) Discussing document accessibility (07:04) Authenticity in company culture (09:10) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview (11:13) Speculating on the document's origins (13:02) Learning from negative experiences (13:57) Authenticity in leadership (16:13) The role of authenticity in attracting talent (20:53) Balancing critique with appreciation for clarity (21:42) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com
Thu, September 26, 2024
This episode of HR Heretics dives into the treacherous waters of giving feedback to friends without capsizing relationships. Candid feedback or comfortable silence? Kelli and Nolan dissect the art of critiquing colleagues, challenging listeners to reconsider their approach to workplace honesty. Discover why your ego might be your own worst enemy, and learn how to transform awkward conversations into opportunities for growth. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine. -- Support HR Heretics Sponsors: Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy. Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics — BOOK MENTIONED: "Ego is the Enemy" by Ryan Holiday: https://www.amazon.com/Ego-Enemy-Ryan-Holiday/dp/1591847818 — KEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — TIMESTAMPS: (00:13) Intro (01:14) A Real-World Example: Kelli's Feedback to Nolan (02:27) Nolan's Response: The Importance of Inquiry (04:56) Building Relationships Through Honest Communication (06:36) Ego as a Barrier to Effective Feedback (07:34) Challenging Perceptions: The Curious Leader (08:46) Sponsor: Planful | Metaview (10:50) Learning from Blunt Feedback: Nolan's Robot Story (13:36) Using Humor to Ease Feedback Conversations (14:31) Overcoming Perfectionism and Job Security Fears (15:44) Reframing Feedback: Alternative Conversation Starters (16:42) The Golden Rule of Feedback: Reciprocity in Communication (17:58) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substa
Tue, September 24, 2024
Amazon CEO Andy Jassy announces return to office policy, sparking debate on workplace culture and employee expectations in tech industry. Will Amazon's RTO policy lead to increased employee turnover and a decline in morale? Listen as Kelli and Nolan explore the implications of these changes on workplace culture, employee expectations, and the broader business landscape. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine. -- Support HR Heretics Sponsors: Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy. Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics — RELATED EPISODE: Everyone’s Talking About Founder Mode — KEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — TIMESTAMPS (00:20) Andy Jassy's Letter on Culture (01:50) Two Big Changes at Amazon (03:00) Amazon's Employee Growth (04:40) Innovation and In-Person Work (05:10) Trade-offs of Remote Work (06:00) Clarity in RTO Communications (07:56) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview (10:10) Exceptions to RTO Policy (11:40) Top Performers and Exceptions (13:20) Business Reality vs Expectations This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com
Thu, September 19, 2024
Thinking of swiping right on a colleague? Find out with Kelli and Nolan if workplace romance is worth the potential awkward elevator rides and why mixing power and passion is a recipe for corporate disaster. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine. -- Support HR Heretics Sponsors: Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy. Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics — KEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — TIMESTAMPS (00:00) Intro (01:16) Workplace Relationships (03:01) Why Dating Within Reporting Chain is Improper (05:17) Company Policies on Office Relationships (09:15) Hypothetical: CEO Dating a Junior Employee (09:33) Sponsor: Planful | Metaview (13:31) Leaders Dating Employees from Different Departments (16:18) Disclosing Relationships Between Colleagues (18:29) Handling Unwanted Advances from Coworkers (19:02) The One-Ask Rule (20:04) Codifying Relationship Policies (21:38) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com
Tue, September 17, 2024
You've got your daily team, the folks you work with every day, but then there's the executive squad. Patrick Lencioni’s "Five Dysfunctions of a Team" says that should be your true loyalty, but how does that translate into practice? Nolan and Kelli talk about navigating those tricky waters and avoiding toxic team vibes when the big boss throws down some tough choices. Explore how HR pros can keep things from blowing up when the executive team calls the shots. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine . Support HR Heretics Sponsors: Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy. Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics — KEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — RELATED BOOK: The Five Dysfunctions of a Team: A Leadership Fable by Patrick M. Lencioni https://www.amazon.com/Five-Dysfunctions-Team-Leadership-Fable/dp/0787960756 — TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro (00:13) The "First Team" Concept (01:09) Balancing Executive and Functional Teams (03:07) Importance of Organizational Alignment (05:58) Handling Team Disagreements with Executive Decisions (07:58) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview (10:02) Avoiding Toxic Leadership Behaviors (11:44) Explaining Decisions to Teams (13:52) Value of Transparency in Leadership (15:11) Addressing Team Members' Concerns (17:01) Managing Team Turnover and Succession Planning (18:06) Preventing and Addressing Team Toxicity (18:36) Wrap
Thu, September 12, 2024
Is context switching hurting your HR productivity? Kelli and Nolan talk about how leaders effectively navigate multiple roles and explore practical techniques for maximizing productivity in HR to build an adaptable team. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine . Support HR Heretics Sponsors: Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy. Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics — KEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — RELATED: Essentialism: The Disciplined Pursuit of Less by Greg McKeown — TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro (00:39) Challenges of Multiple Roles (01:45) Navigating Different Relationships (03:14) Setting Boundaries in Conversations (04:49) Balancing Work and Personal Life (05:36) Building a Strong, Adaptable Team (07:52) Maximizing Meeting Effectiveness (08:50) Prioritizing Tasks and Self-Care (09:00) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview (10:36) Reducing Digital Distractions (11:33) Better Meetings (12:14) The Power of Phone Calls (14:33) Walking and Talking (15:45) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com
Tue, September 10, 2024
US white-collar promotions are down 24% in Q1 2024, with a near 50% drop since 2022. What does this mean for employees and the job market? Kelli and Nolan discuss causes, including pandemic effects and company restructuring, and talk about strategies for retention and career growth in a restructured, doer-focused workplaces. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine . Support HR Heretics Sponsors: Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy. Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics — KEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — LINK: Report: Promotions disappeared in Q1 2024 — TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Introduction and Welcome (00:16) Promotion Data Analysis (01:15) Discussion on Promotion Trends (03:49) Impact of Economic Changes on Promotions (06:39) Future of Job Market and AI (07:50) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview (09:55) Continued Discussion on AI and Job Market (16:27) Final Thoughts and Advice (16:43) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com
Fri, September 06, 2024
Guissu Baier , a talent expert at General Catalyst who navigated the treacherous waters of startup equity compensation at Instacart, joins Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich challenging conventional wisdom about refresh grants, and revealing that most companies lack a clear strategy. Is it time to ditch the old-school "wait and see" approach and embrace a more performance-driven model? Listen to Guissu, Kelli and Nolan as they offer insights into how to bridge the gap and foster collaboration between legal and HR teams. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine . 🔥 Apply to join over 400 Founders and Execs in the Turpentine Network: https://www.turpentinenetwork.co/ Support HR Heretics Sponsors: Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to http://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy. Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics KEEP UP WITH GUISSU, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Guissu: https://www.linkedin.com/in/guissu/ Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — LINKS: General Catalyst: https://www.generalcatalyst.com/ General Catalyst's Equity Refresh Survey: https://www.generalcatalyst.com/perspectives/equity-refresh-survey-2024 Related Podcast: How Big Should Your Org Grow https://hrheretics.substack.com/p/how-big-should-your-org-grow — TIMESTAMPS: (0
Thu, September 05, 2024
Today Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich talk about ‘Founder Mode’ a concept coined by YC founder Paul Graham in a recent essay — based on a talk by Brian Chesky, founder of Airbnb. They discuss how founders feel gaslit by advice to delegate without micromanaging, and that the right approach IS a ruthlessly hands-on approach. The hosts explore the tension founders face between maintaining control and trusting hires, emphasizing the need for empathy. This is a sign that the paradigm is shifting, and all business leaders need to adjust.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine . — Support HR Heretics Sponsors: Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy. Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics — LINK: Founder Mode https://paulgraham.com/foundermode.html — KEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) What is Founder Mode? (03:59) Empathy for Founders (04:54) The Role of Executives and Operators (07:19) Blending Founder and Manager Mindsets (09:56) Defensiveness and Personal Growth (11:45) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview (13:50) Kelli’s Best Take Ever? This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com
Thu, August 29, 2024
Dr. Vijay Pendakur, DEI expert, author, and principal and founder of Vijay Pendakur Consulting , joins Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich to discuss the current pushback against DEI, the future of the movement, and how companies can find success in a shifting landscape. How can companies foster inclusion while avoiding divisiveness and proving business value? Vijay, Kelli and Nolan candidly discuss the future of corporate diversity initiatives amid pushback and the search for measurable ROI, and exchange ideas for how to evolve diversity initiatives for impact. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine . 🔥 Apply to join over 400 Founders and Execs in the Turpentine Network: https://www.turpentinenetwork.co/ Support HR Heretics Sponsors: Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to http://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy. Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics Discover Workvivo , Zoom’s employee experience platform, designed to delight your hybrid workforce. With dynamic and intuitive features people actually like using, Workvivo fosters a sense of belonging and boosts retention and productivity. Join Ryanair, Dollar General, and Virgin — head to https://bit.ly/hrhereticsworkvivo to book a demo (tell them Kelli and Nolan sent you). KEEP UP WITH VIJAY, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Vijay: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vijaypendakur Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — LINKS: “Closing the Opportunity Gap” <a target="_blank" href="https://www.amazon.
Tue, August 27, 2024
Today Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich tackle knowing when it's time to leave a job -- considering factors such as energy levels, learning opportunities, and impact. They cover the art of giving notice, protecting your financial interests, and nurturing professional connections when moving to a new opportunity. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine . Support HR Heretics Sponsors: Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to http://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy. Discover Workvivo , Zoom’s employee experience platform, designed to delight your hybrid workforce. With dynamic and intuitive features people actually like using, Workvivo fosters a sense of belonging and boosts retention and productivity. Join Ryanair, Dollar General, and Virgin — head to https://bit.ly/hrhereticsworkvivo to book a demo (tell them Kelli and Nolan sent you). Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics KEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(00:55) Recognizing It's Time to Leave(03:54) The Importance of Networking and Taking Recruiter Calls(06:57) Sponsor: Planful | Workvivo(09:59) Job Tenure and Career Narratives(12:53) How to Put in Notice(16:55) Sponsor: Metaview(18:55) Vesting and Financial Considerations When Leaving(19:53) Maintaining Relationships After Leaving a Company(22:53) Closing Thoughts and Lessons Learned(23:01) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com
Thu, August 22, 2024
In this episode of HR Heretics, Nolan Church sits down with Valentina Gissin , former Head of Talent at Bridgewater and current Chief People Officer at Garner. Valentina shares the lasting lessons and people practices from working under Ray Dalio at Bridgewater, Garner's unique approach to the interview process, and her approach to hybrid work, manager training, L&D, and performance reviews. Valentina offers an absolute masterclass in innovating hiring and people strategies. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine . Support HR Heretics Sponsors: Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to http://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy. Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics Discover Workvivo , Zoom’s employee experience platform, designed to delight your hybrid workforce. With dynamic and intuitive features people actually like using, Workvivo fosters a sense of belonging and boosts retention and productivity. Join Ryanair, Dollar General, and Virgin — head to https://bit.ly/hrhereticsworkvivo to book a demo (tell them Kelli and Nolan sent you). KEEP UP WITH VALENTINA, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Valentina: https://www.linkedin.com/in/valentinagissin Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — LINKS: Garner Health: https://www.getgarner.com/ Principles by Ray Dalio: https://www.principles.com/ — TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro (00:47) Valentina's Experience at Bridgewater (01:27) Dot Collector an
Tue, August 20, 2024
In this HR Heretics segment, Nolan and Kelli talk about "back channels" in the hiring process. They dive deep into this controversial practice and how back channels can impact candidate selection, emphasizing the need for a thoughtful, mature approach that considers the full context of a candidate's experience and potential. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine . Support HR Heretics Sponsors: Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to http://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy. Discover Workvivo , Zoom’s employee experience platform, designed to delight your hybrid workforce. With dynamic and intuitive features people actually like using, Workvivo fosters a sense of belonging and boosts retention and productivity. Join Ryanair, Dollar General, and Virgin — head to https://bit.ly/hrhereticsworkvivo to book a demo (tell them Kelli and Nolan sent you). Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics KEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) - Intro (00:54) - Defining back channels as "underground mafia" of feedback (01:52) - The right way to do back channeling (03:03) - Maturity in back channeling conversations (04:12) - When to do back channeling (05:43) - Avoiding the "back channeling frenzy" (06:42) - Timing of back channeling in the hiring process (07:55) - Sponsors - Planful | Workvivo (10:48) - How to properly conduct a back channel inquiry (12:04) - Sponsor - Metaview (13:40) - Typical back channel communication methods (14:50) - Real example of a nuanced back channel situation (15:59) - The "family reunion" analogy for
Thu, August 15, 2024
In this episode of HR Heretics, Nolan and Kelli are joined by Joelle Emerson, CEO of Paradigm, to discuss why diversity numbers aren't improving quickly in companies and the challenges in measuring DEI progress. This episode explores the complexities of measuring impact, discusses the trade-offs of long-term strategies, and offers insights for navigating the current backlash. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine . Support HR Heretics Sponsors: Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to http://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy. Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics Discover Workvivo , Zoom’s employee experience platform, designed to delight your hybrid workforce. With dynamic and intuitive features people actually like using, Workvivo fosters a sense of belonging and boosts retention and productivity. Join Ryanair, Dollar General, and Virgin — head to https://bit.ly/hrhereticsworkvivo to book a demo (tell them Kelli and Nolan sent you). This episode is brought to you by Warp. Don’t let payroll and compliance hold your startup back: visit https://joinwarp.com/peel to get started and receive a $1000 gift card when your first run payroll. KEEP UP WITH JOELLE, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Joelle: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joelle-emerson-4a24225 Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — LINKS: Paradigm: https://www.paradigmiq.com/ — TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro (00:58) Paradigm's mission and work
Tue, August 13, 2024
In this HR Heretics segment, Nolan and Kelli discuss the dramatic shift in the tech industry's work culture. They explore how the once-glamorous perception of tech jobs, filled with lavish perks and easy success, has given way to a more challenging reality. While this transition is painful, it may ultimately lead to a healthier, more sustainable tech ecosystem with professionals who are truly committed to building the future. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine . Support HR Heretics Sponsors: Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to http://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy. Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics Discover Workvivo , Zoom’s employee experience platform, designed to delight your hybrid workforce. With dynamic and intuitive features people actually like using, Workvivo fosters a sense of belonging and boosts retention and productivity. Join Ryanair, Dollar General, and Virgin — head to https://bit.ly/hrhereticsworkvivo to book a demo (tell them Kelli and Nolan sent you). KEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro(02:03) The Contrast: Past Tech Perks vs Current Reality(03:30) Changing Perceptions: From Love to Hate in Tech(04:43) Sponsor: Planful(05:41) Expectation vs Reality: The Tech Industry Illusion(07:51) First Major Downturn: Impact on Young Tech Workers(09:21) Silver Lining: Creating Better Leaders Through Adversity(11:28) The New Normal: Reaching Equilibrium in Tech Industry(12:11) Wrap(12:48) Sponsor: Metaview | WorkOS(15:30) Outro This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to
Thu, August 08, 2024
Today Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich discuss The New York Times article making waves this past week: "So Human Resources Making You Miserable". Nolan and Kelli dissect the article's claims, share their own experiences and what they're hearing from other leaders, and discuss the disconnect between HR and the rest of the org. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine . Support HR Heretics Sponsors: Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics Discover Workvivo , Zoom’s employee experience platform, designed to delight your hybrid workforce. With dynamic and intuitive features people actually like using, Workvivo fosters a sense of belonging and boosts retention and productivity. Join Ryanair, Dollar General, and Virgin — head to https://bit.ly/hrhereticsworkvivo to book a demo (tell them Kelli and Nolan sent you). Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to http://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy. KEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — LINKS: New York Times: So, Human Resources Is Making You Miserable?: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/08/03/business/human-resources-professionals-workplace.html Referenced book:Bad Therapy: Why the Kids Aren't Growing Up: https://www.amazon.com/Bad-Therapy-Kids-Arent-Growing-ebook/dp/B0CBYHTV2D — TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(00:15) "HR Making You Miserable" Article(01:22) HR Community Reactions & The Past Few Years(02:43) HR vs. The Rest of Busin
Tue, August 06, 2024
In this episode of HR Heretics, Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich weigh in on a listener's question (shoutout Karissa!) about implementing 'bar raiser' interview programs at her Series D company. Are they worth the hype, or just an HR trend? Kelli and Nolan dig in. You too can email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine . Support HR Heretics Sponsors: Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics Discover Workvivo , Zoom’s employee experience platform, designed to delight your hybrid workforce. With dynamic and intuitive features people actually like using, Workvivo fosters a sense of belonging and boosts retention and productivity. Join Ryanair, Dollar General, and Virgin — head to https://bit.ly/hrhereticsworkvivo to book a demo (tell them Kelli and Nolan sent you). Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to http://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy. KEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro (00:21) Implementing a bar raiser interview process (00:57) Amazon's Bar Raiser Program (01:36) Rebranding the "Bar Raiser" Process (02:42) The Amazon Approach (03:24) Avoiding Bias & Alternative Approaches (04:46) DoorDash's Experience (06:00) Challenges & Trade-offs (07:18) Sponsor: Metaview | Workvivo (08:16) DoorDash's Shift From the "Bar Raiser" Program (10:18) Alternatives & First Principles (12:31) Addressing CEO Expectations (13:25) Bias & Homogeneous Cultures (14:44) The Role of CEOs & Founders (15:19) Diligence & Feedback (17:21) Going Slow to Go Fast (18:17) Misaligned Expectations (19:10) Start S
Thu, August 01, 2024
In this episode of HR Heretics, Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich sit down with Metaview CEO Siadhal Magos for his insight into how AI is transforming recruiting -- and creating unexpected leverage for teams that know how to use it. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine . Support HR Heretics Sponsors: Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to http://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy. Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics Discover Workvivo , Zoom’s employee experience platform, designed to delight your hybrid workforce. With dynamic and intuitive features people actually like using, Workvivo fosters a sense of belonging and boosts retention and productivity. Join Ryanair, Dollar General, and Virgin — head to https://bit.ly/hrhereticsworkvivo to book a demo (tell them Kelli and Nolan sent you). This episode is brought to you by Warp. Don’t let payroll and compliance hold your startup back: visit https://joinwarp.com/peel to get started and receive a $1000 gift card when your first run payroll. KEEP UP WITH SIADHAL, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Siadhal: https://www.linkedin.com/in/siadhal/?originalSubdomain=uk Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — LINKS: Metaview: https://www.metaview.ai/ — TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Introduction (06:51) The Pain Points of Traditional Hiring (10:59) Interviews are Broken (14:20) Conversations are Key (14:26) Sponsor: Planful | Workvivo (17:00) The Future
Tue, July 30, 2024
In this episode of HR Heretics, Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich discuss how HR teams can break out from behind the curtain and be a proactive force for good within the organization. HR can be more than just a reactive function. Learn how HR teams can demonstrate their real impact on the business as Kelli and Nolan share tips for increasing visibility and showcasing your team's value. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine . Support HR Heretics Sponsors: Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to http://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy. Discover Workvivo , Zoom’s employee experience platform, designed to delight your hybrid workforce. With dynamic and intuitive features people actually like using, Workvivo fosters a sense of belonging and boosts retention and productivity. Join Ryanair, Dollar General, and Virgin — head to https://bit.ly/hrhereticsworkvivo to book a demo (tell them Kelli and Nolan sent you). KEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro (01:18) The Importance of Feedback (02:17) Mediocre vs. Amazing Work (03:07) Employee Awareness of HR Functions (04:41) Town Hall Presence: Communication and Transparency (05:01) Engagement Surveys (06:06) The Importance of Transparency - The "Sausage Making" Analogy (06:35) AMA Example - Comp Transparency (08:30) Sponsor: Planful | Workvivo (11:09) The Art of Compensation (12:19) Transparency is Scary but Necessary (13:00) Explaining the "Why" - First Principles (14:00) Time Commitment and Building Trust (15:18) Strategic Vulnerability and Humanization (16:40) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com
Thu, July 25, 2024
In this episode of HR Heretics, Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich sit down with Chris Vasquez , Investor and Founder of Quantum Talent, and discuss the insane AI talent market, executive hiring, and the future of work in a world where AI is rapidly changing everything. Hear their insights on the dynamic AI talent market covering the evolution of tech trends, challenges in hiring, the changing dynamics of diversity and merit, and the race for top talent. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine . Support HR Heretics Sponsors: Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to http://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy. Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics Discover Workvivo , Zoom’s employee experience platform, designed to delight your hybrid workforce. With dynamic and intuitive features people actually like using, Workvivo fosters a sense of belonging and boosts retention and productivity. Join Ryanair, Dollar General, and Virgin — head to https://bit.ly/hrhereticsworkvivo to book a demo (tell them Kelli and Nolan sent you). This episode is brought to you by Warp. Don’t let payroll and compliance hold your startup back: visit https://joinwarp.com/peel to get started and receive a $1000 gift card when your first run payroll. KEEP UP WITH CHRIS, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Chris: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chris-vasquez-66137553/ Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — LINKS: Quantum Talent: <a target="_blank" href="https://www.quantumta
Tue, July 23, 2024
In this episode of HR Heretics, Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich discuss the reality of PIPs (Performance Improvement Plans). Are PIPs genuine efforts to help employees or a company CYA tactic? Kelli and Nolan explore the misuse of PIPs, arguing that they should be a last resort, not the first step in addressing performance issues. Listen to their insights as they discuss PIP alternatives, like the "fork approach," focusing on open communication and employee empowerment over PIPs. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine . Support HR Heretics Sponsors: Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to http://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy. Discover Workvivo , Zoom’s employee experience platform, designed to delight your hybrid workforce. With dynamic and intuitive features people actually like using, Workvivo fosters a sense of belonging and boosts retention and productivity. Join Ryanair, Dollar General, and Virgin — head to https://bit.ly/hrhereticsworkvivo to book a demo (tell them Kelli and Nolan sent you). KEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro(03:12) Performance Improvement Plans (PIPs)(01:46) Pips As A Forcing Function And The Misuse Of The Process(05:06) The Misconception on PIPs(06:48) Sponsors: Planful | Workvivo(08:00) The "PIP or Package" Approach and its Alternatives(13:21) Surviving PIP(16:38) Advice for Employees Facing PIP This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com
Thu, July 18, 2024
In this episode of HR Heretics, Kelli and Nolan are joined by Heather Doshay, Partner and Head of Talent at SignalFire. How is the tech talent landscape evolving, and what are the challenges and opportunities that come with these changes? Listen as Heather shares insights from their State of Talent report, uncovering shifts in location trends, Gen Z job hopping, and the truth about AI's impact on hiring. Plus, hear why "remote ready" is more important than ever and why Heather calls out the reliance on pedigree and college degrees in hiring, arguing for a more skills-based approach to talent acquisition. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine . Support HR Heretics Sponsors: Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to http://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy. Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics Discover Workvivo , Zoom’s employee experience platform, designed to delight your hybrid workforce. With dynamic and intuitive features people actually like using, Workvivo fosters a sense of belonging and boosts retention and productivity. Join Ryanair, Dollar General, and Virgin — head to https://bit.ly/hrhereticsworkvivo to book a demo (tell them Kelli and Nolan sent you). This episode is brought to you by Warp. Don’t let payroll and compliance hold your startup back: visit https://joinwarp.com/peel to get started and receive a $1000 gift card when your first run payroll. RELATED EPISODE: Tomasz Tunguz on Hiring the Right Talent, Firing the Wrong Execs, and Navigating M&As * Substack * Apple * <a t
Tue, July 16, 2024
In this episode of HR Heretics, Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich discuss Meta's latest round of VP cuts which raises questions about the future of big tech jobs and the impact of efficiency initiatives on employees. Is Meta's large number of VPs hindering efficiency? Listen as Kelli and Nolan discuss the impact of bloated management structures in big tech, the future of leadership and management, and their insights on how to prepare for a changing job market. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine . Support HR Heretics Sponsors: Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to http://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy. Discover Workvivo , Zoom’s employee experience platform, designed to delight your hybrid workforce. With dynamic and intuitive features people actually like using, Workvivo fosters a sense of belonging and boosts retention and productivity. Join Ryanair, Dollar General, and Virgin — head to https://bit.ly/hrhereticsworkvivo to book a demo (tell them Kelli and Nolan sent you). This episode is brought to you by Warp. Don’t let payroll and compliance hold your startup back: visit https://joinwarp.com/peel to get started and receive a $1000 gift card when your first run payroll. KEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Introduction (00:04) Meta's Push for Efficiency (02:03) Employee Perspective on Job Security (03:30) Company Perspective on Executive Roles (06:01) The Issue of Title Inflation (08:04) Navigating the Job Market (08:55) Sponsors: Planful | Workvivo (13:08) Networking and Career Advice (15:15) Concluding Thoughts (15:26) Sponsor: Warp (16:27) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com
Thu, July 11, 2024
In this episode of HR Heretics, Nick and Kelli sit down with Nick Cromydas, CEO of Hunt Club , and discuss the executive search evolution, leveraging technology, and AI. His company Hunt Club uses a network of thousands of leaders to find the perfect candidate, revolutionizing the traditional search firm model. Nick, Kelli, and Nolan discuss common negotiation points and terms surrounding executive compensation, equity, and the importance of transparency and feedback in hiring processes. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine . — Support HR Heretics Sponsors: Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to http://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy. Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics Discover Workvivo , Zoom’s employee experience platform, designed to delight your hybrid workforce. With dynamic and intuitive features people actually like using, Workvivo fosters a sense of belonging and boosts retention and productivity. Join Ryanair, Dollar General, and Virgin — head to https://bit.ly/hrhereticsworkvivo to book a demo (tell them Kelli and Nolan sent you). This episode is brought to you by Warp. Don’t let payroll and compliance hold your startup back: visit https://joinwarp.com/peel to get started and receive a $1000 gift card when your first run payroll. — KEEP UP WITH NICK, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDINNick: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cromydas Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — LINKS: Hunt Club: h
Tue, July 09, 2024
In this episode of HR Heretics, Nolan is joined by regular guests/friends of the pod Colleen McCreary (Ribbit Capital) and David Hanrahan (CPO, Flare) to unpack Alexandr Wang’s MEI stance at Scale AI, the growing backlash against DEI initiatives, and a discussion of how businesses can move forward productively from this debate. The conversation also touches on the new culture deck from Netflix! If you haven’t listened to HR Heretics episode #1 where we interviewed Patti McCord, architect of the first Netflix culture deck, queue it up right after this episode. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine . — Support Our Sponsors: Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. :writing_hand: Go to http://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy. Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics Discover Workvivo , Zoom’s employee experience platform, designed to delight your hybrid workforce. With dynamic and intuitive features people actually like using, Workvivo fosters a sense of belonging and boosts retention and productivity. Join Ryanair, Dollar General, and Virgin — head to https://bit.ly/hrhereticsworkvivo to book a demo (tell them Kelli and Nolan sent you). This episode is brought to you by Warp. Don’t let payroll and compliance hold your startup back: visit https://joinwarp.com/peel to get started and receive a $1000 gift card when your first run payroll. — KEEP UP WITH COLLEEN, DAVID, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDINColleen: https://www.linkedin.com/in/colleenmccrearychiefpplofficer/ David: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidhanrahan Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Ke
Wed, July 03, 2024
In this 4th of July special episode of HR Heretics, hosts Kelli and Nolan discuss the hurdles of taking vacations, particularly in the context of modern HR practices. They explore the challenges and strategies of making use of unlimited PTO, the importance of setting regular boundaries for mental health, and the importance of planning ahead for time off. They also discuss the importance of training your colleagues to enforce your vacation, deleting Slack off your phone, and recognizing false urgency. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine . Support HR Heretics Sponsors: Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. :writing_hand: Go to http://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy. Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics Discover Workvivo , Zoom’s employee experience platform, designed to delight your hybrid workforce. With dynamic and intuitive features people actually like using, Workvivo fosters a sense of belonging and boosts retention and productivity. Join Ryanair, Dollar General, and Virgin — head to https://bit.ly/hrhereticsworkvivo to book a demo (tell them Kelli and Nolan sent you). This episode is brought to you by Warp. Don’t let payroll and compliance hold your startup back: visit https://joinwarp.com/peel to get started and receive a $1000 gift card when your first run payroll. KEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Introduction and Welcome (00:02) The Vacation Dilemma (00:42) Unlimited Vacation Policies (01:23) Personal Vacation Strategies (02:26) The Importance of Taking Breaks (04:45) Setting Boundaries
Tue, July 02, 2024
In this episode of HR Heretics, Kelli and Nolan sit with Michelle Wagner as she shares her journey from Chief People Officer at AOL and Evernote to becoming the CEO of MindStrong, a healthech company. Michelle, who may be “N of 1” in the CPO to CEO company trajectory, discusses her early career, the challenges she faced in different leadership roles, and the strategic decisions she made during her tenure as CEO of MindStrong. This candid conversation offers valuable insights for HR professionals and aspiring leaders, highlighting the multifaceted responsibilities and realities of executive leadership — plus what the job search looks like after you’ve been a CPO and a CEO. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine . -- Support our amazing sponsors: Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. :writing_hand: Go to http://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy. Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics Discover Workvivo , Zoom’s employee experience platform, designed to delight your hybrid workforce. With dynamic and intuitive features people actually like using, Workvivo fosters a sense of belonging and boosts retention and productivity. Join Ryanair, Dollar General, and Virgin — head to https://bit.ly/hrhereticsworkvivo to book a demo (tell them Kelli and Nolan sent you). This episode is brought to you by Warp. Don’t let payroll and compliance hold your startup back: visit https://joinwarp.com/peel to get started and receive a $1000 gift card when your first run payroll. -- KEEP UP WITH MICHELLE, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Michelle: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michelledwk/ Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Introduction (00:52) Nostalgia and Beginnin
Thu, June 27, 2024
In this episode of HR Heretics, Kelli and Nolan sit down with Andrew Bartlow, a multi time VP of HR and co-founder of People Leader Accelerator. Andrew shares his extensive career from startups to Fortune 100 companies, the distinct challenges at each company stage across VC-backed startups and public companies, and the danger of being relegated to your HR island. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine . Support HR Heretics Sponsors: Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics Discover Workvivo , Zoom’s employee experience platform, designed to delight your hybrid workforce. With dynamic and intuitive features people actually like using, Workvivo fosters a sense of belonging and boosts retention and productivity. Join Ryanair, Dollar General, and Virgin — head to https://bit.ly/hrhereticsworkvivo to book a demo (tell them Kelli and Nolan sent you). Attio is the next generation of CRM. It’s powerful, flexible, and easily configures to the unique way your startup runs, whatever your go-to-market motion. The next era deserves a better CRM. Join ElevenLabs, Replicate, Modal, and more at https://bit.ly/AttioHRHeretics This episode is brought to you by Warp. Don’t let payroll and compliance hold your startup back: visit https://joinwarp.com/peel to get started and receive a $1000 gift card when your first run payroll. KEEP UP WITH ANDREW, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Andrew: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bartlow/ Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro (01:06) Andrew's career journey (02:49) Differences between company types (06:57) Power structures and company culture (12:26) Talent assessment in private equity (17:47) Sponsors: Metaview | Workvivo (20:39) Private equity misconceptions (28:20) Sponsors: Attio | Warp (30:11) Changing reputation of private equity (33:11) CEO and Chief People Officer relationship (37:07) Assessing CEO's expectations (39:00) Concept of HR island (41:34) Engagement metrics: A cri
Tue, June 25, 2024
Scale AI's CEO sparks debate with "MEI" - is meritocracy a threat to diversity? Kelli and Nolan, together with Richard Ni, Scale AI’s former Head of People, weigh in on the implications of this new hiring policy. Together, they discuss the role of meritocracy and company culture and offer actionable insights for HR professionals for talent acquisition and building a diverse workforce. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine . Support HR Heretics Sponsors: Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics Discover Workvivo , Zoom’s employee experience platform, designed to delight your hybrid workforce. With dynamic and intuitive features people actually like using, Workvivo fosters a sense of belonging and boosts retention and productivity. Join Ryanair, Dollar General, and Virgin — head to https://bit.ly/hrhereticsworkvivo to book a demo (tell them Kelli and Nolan sent you). Attio is the next generation of CRM. It’s powerful, flexible, and easily configures to the unique way your startup runs, whatever your go-to-market motion. The next era deserves a better CRM. Join ElevenLabs, Replicate, Modal, and more at https://bit.ly/AttioHRHeretics KEEP UP WITH RICHARD, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Richard: https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-ni-a5605543 Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Introduction (02:09) Richard's Perspective on MEI (04:16) Kelli's Take on Meritocracy vs. DEI (07:11) Nolan's Counterpoint: Meritocracy's Imperfections (09:06) The Importance of Transparency and Seeking Improvement (13:00) Richard's Analysis of Scale AI's Motivation (14:34) The Importance of Human Decision-Making and Corruption (19:00) The Imperfections of Humans and Systems (22:22) The Impact of Tech Giants on Expectations (24:40) The Impact of Economic Pressure on Companies (29:48) Wrap <
Fri, June 21, 2024
Nolan and Kelli sit down with Lars Schmidt, Redefining Work podcaster, author, world of work content creator, and founder of Amplify Talent. Lars shares his journey from leading talent at NPR to establishing his voice as a creator, to founding his own advisory firm. Lars, Kelli and Nolan discuss the motivations for becoming a content creator, challenges in building a brand and community, and why in the age of AI HR practitioners need to be more selfish.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine .— Support HR Heretics Sponsors: Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics Discover Workvivo , Zoom’s employee experience platform, designed to delight your hybrid workforce. With dynamic and intuitive features people actually like using, Workvivo fosters a sense of belonging and boosts retention and productivity. Join Ryanair, Dollar General, and Virgin — head to https://bit.ly/hrhereticsworkvivo to book a demo (tell them Kelli and Nolan sent you). Attio is the next generation of CRM. It’s powerful, flexible, and easily configures to the unique way your startup runs, whatever your go-to-market motion. The next era deserves a better CRM. Join ElevenLabs, Replicate, Modal, and more at https://bit.ly/AttioHRHeretics — KEEP UP WITH LARS, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Lars: https://www.linkedin.com/in/larsschmidt/ Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro (00:26) Lars’ journey into content creation (03:05) Transitioning to solo ventures (05:25) Building an Empire: Writing, speaking, and more (11:31) Importance of creating content for personal expression (14:30) Sponsor: Metaview and Workvivo (17:22) LinkedIn podcast partnership (19:00) Downsides on being online (22:23) Future of media and AI (26:30) Handling content for HR community (29:09) Sponsor: Attio (30:06) Challenges and respo
Fri, June 14, 2024
In this episode of HR Heretics, Rippling is banning ex-employees who work at competitors from participating in a secondary stock offering. Is this ethical or a smart business move? Kelli and Nolan discuss the pros and cons of this controversial HR policy. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine . Discover Workvivo , Zoom’s employee experience platform, designed to delight your hybrid workforce. With dynamic and intuitive features people actually like using, Workvivo fosters a sense of belonging and boosts retention and productivity. Join Ryanair, Dollar General, and Virgin — head to https://bit.ly/hrhereticsworkvivo to book a demo (tell them Kelli and Nolan sent you). — KEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Introduction (01:26) Initial Reactions and Previous Examples (03:07) Rippling's Justification and Cynicism (04:31) The Zero-Sum Game and Company Messaging (06:42) Openness vs. Pettyness & Employee Value (07:42) Future Implications and (08:50) Sponsor Break: Workvivo (10:25) Regulatory Implications and Cam's Argument (11:13) A More Brutal Form of Non-Compete & First Principles (13:00) Rippling's Perspective and Understanding the "Why" (13:58) Conclusion: Experimentation and Openness This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com
Thu, June 13, 2024
In this episode of HR Heretics, Kelli and Nolan engage in a heartfelt discussion with Todd Olson, CEO and founder of Pendo. Todd shares his personal and professional journey, from his early days as a developer to his current role as CEO. He provides deep insights into leadership, his unique hiring process, and why he believes HR is essential to business success where human connection and vulnerability are prioritized. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine . Discover Workvivo , Zoom’s employee experience platform, designed to delight your hybrid workforce. With dynamic and intuitive features people actually like using, Workvivo fosters a sense of belonging and boosts retention and productivity. Join Ryanair, Dollar General, and Virgin — head to https://bit.ly/hrhereticsworkvivo to book a demo (tell them Kelli and Nolan sent you). Attio is the next generation of CRM. It’s powerful, flexible, and easily configures to the unique way your startup runs, whatever your go-to-market motion. The next era deserves a better CRM. Join ElevenLabs, Replicate, Modal, and more at https://bit.ly/AttioHRHeretics LINKS: Pendo: https://www.pendo.io/ HR Heretics podcast with JR Rettig: Building Legendary Teams: Trust, Transition, and Quality with JR Rettig of Pendo LINKEDIN:Todd: https://www.linkedin.com/in/toddaolson Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Introduction (03:00) Typecasting and the importance of being the CEO (05:00) Co-founder dynamics at Pendo (09:00) The CEO card and cultural decisions (12:00) Blending human elements with leadership (16:00) The impact of personal life on leadership (17:13) Sponsors: Workvivo | Attio (19:47) Todd on Elon Musk (21:00) Building a culture of followership (24:00) Hiring practices (27:00) The "why" behind joining Pendo (31:00) Interviewing Senior SDRs (34:00) CEO involvement in offer review (37:00) Hiring executives (41:00) The first 90 days of an executive (45:00) The role of HR in 2024 (50:00) Hiring a head of HR
Tue, June 11, 2024
In this episode of HR Heretics, Nolan and Kelli explore the rising trend of replacing managers with coaches, examining the pros and cons of this model and its potential impact on employee development. They also discuss the practicalities of implementing a coach-based management model, including the role of functional expertise and the need for rapid onboarding of coaches. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine . Discover Workvivo , Zoom’s employee experience platform, designed to delight your hybrid workforce. With dynamic and intuitive features people actually like using, Workvivo fosters a sense of belonging and boosts retention and productivity. Join Ryanair, Dollar General, and Virgin — head to https://bit.ly/hrhereticsworkvivo to book a demo (tell them Kelli and Nolan sent you). Attio is the next generation of CRM. It’s powerful, flexible, and easily configures to the unique way your startup runs, whatever your go-to-market motion. The next era deserves a better CRM. Join ElevenLabs, Replicate, Modal, and more at https://bit.ly/AttioHRHeretics — KEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Introduction & The Big Changes in Tech (01:40) Tweaking the System (02:52) The NVIDIA Model: Pros and Cons (04:14) One-On-Ones and The Middle Ground (6:00) The Importance of Spontaneous Communication (07:18) Sponsor: Attio (08:15) Skillset and Capability Considerations (09:09) Assessing Candidates for New Environments (11:07) The Canva Model: External Coaches (13:00) Executive Coaching vs Functional Coaching (13:53) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com
Thu, June 06, 2024
In this episode of HR Heretics, Kelli Dragovich and Nolan Church welcome Michelle Delcambre, an operating partner at Felicis (and formerly of Stripe & Databricks), to discuss company growth trajectories, and strategic HR practices around talent, comp, and exits. Michelle shares the development of Felicis’ ‘Benchmark Your Org' tool — which you can access here — it’s a free platform utilizing data from 15,000 companies, updated monthly, to help founders benchmark organizational growth. This conversation, which is one of Nolan's favorite episodes of the year, covers common founder mistakes and offers insights around pre-negotiated exit packages, comp strategies, company attrition, and so much more. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine . Discover Workvivo , Zoom’s employee experience platform, designed to delight your hybrid workforce. With dynamic and intuitive features people actually like using, Workvivo fosters a sense of belonging and boosts retention and productivity. Join Ryanair, Dollar General, and Virgin — head to https://bit.ly/hrhereticsworkvivo to book a demo (tell them Kelli and Nolan sent you). Attio is the next generation of CRM. It’s powerful, flexible, and easily configures to the unique way your startup runs, whatever your go-to-market motion. The next era deserves a better CRM. Join ElevenLabs, Replicate, Modal, and more at https://bit.ly/AttioHRHeretics LINKS:Benchmark Your Org: https://www.felicis.com/benchmark LINKEDIN:Michelle: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michelledelcambre/ Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(04:30) Actually useful benchmarks for founders(07:25) What metrics do people care about now?Boomerangs(09:30) Missing people data metrics(10:30) The talent vortex(15:35) Sponsors: WorkVivo | Attio(18:15) The anxiety of the “Regrettable attrition” metric and boomerang employees(23:07) Compensation challenges in startups(25:52) Tender offers and secondary markets(28:13) Innovative solutions for employee equity(38:41) Pre-negotiated severance and employee retention(43:56) Common mistakes founders make(49:36) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit <a href="
Tue, June 04, 2024
In this episode of HR Heretics, Nolan and Kelli dive into the devastating impact of toxic managers, featuring real stories of burnout, mental health struggles, and even suicide. They delve into the misconduct of a Baidu executive who displayed horrific behavior towards her employees and the extreme pressures leading to suicides among investment bankers, highlighted by a tragic case at Bank of America. From recognizing the signs of toxic management to building a strong support network, Kelli and Nolan offer actionable advice on navigating difficult workplaces and prioritizing your well-being. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine . Discover Workvivo , Zoom’s employee experience platform, designed to delight your hybrid workforce. With dynamic and intuitive features people actually like using, Workvivo fosters a sense of belonging and boosts retention and productivity. Join Ryanair, Dollar General, and Virgin — head to https://bit.ly/hrhereticsworkvivo to book a demo (tell them Kelli and Nolan sent you). Attio is the next generation of CRM. It’s powerful, flexible, and easily configures to the unique way your startup runs, whatever your go-to-market motion. The next era deserves a better CRM. Join ElevenLabs, Replicate, Modal, and more at https://bit.ly/AttioHRHeretics Related Articles: * Top exec at Chinese search giant Baidu tells workers ‘I’m not your mom’ — then loses job * Death of Former Green Beret (IB Associate at BofA) — KEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro(00:37) Toxic Managers: Baidu Executive's Shocking Behavior(01:03) Toxic Managers: The Tragic Case of the iBanker(01:34) Kelli's Take on Toxic Management(04:26) Nolan's Perspective on Work-Life Balance(06:40) Sponsor Workvivo | Attio(09:19) The Impact of Fear-Based Leadership(11:15) Balancing Work Expectations and Employee Well-being(13:57) Encouragement and Community Support(16:17) An Element of EQ Is Necessary(19:19) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com
Fri, May 31, 2024
In this episode of HR Heretics, Nolan and Kelli sit down with Casey Woo, a former public market investor turned 7x high-growth executive (including WeWork). He is now the founder of Operations Guild and General Partner at FOG Ventures. Casey shares eye-opening experiences from his time at WeWork and describes working with Adam Neumann, and the dynamics of rapid business scaling. They also highlight the impact of AI on business operations, the rise of the business operator, and discuss what skill-based ‘‘specialist generalists” do. HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine . Share this with your friends, forward to your enemies. Hit subscribe now. Discover Workvivo , Zoom’s employee experience platform, designed to delight your hybrid workforce. With dynamic and intuitive features people actually like using, Workvivo fosters a sense of belonging and boosts retention and productivity. Join Ryanair, Dollar General, and Virgin — head to https://bit.ly/hrhereticsworkvivo to book a demo (tell them Kelli and Nolan sent you). Attio is the next generation of CRM. It’s powerful, flexible, and easily configures to the unique way your startup runs, whatever your go-to-market motion. The next era deserves a better CRM. Join ElevenLabs, Replicate, Modal, and more at https://bit.ly/AttioHRHeretics KEEP UP WITH CASEY, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Casey: https://www.linkedin.com/in/caseywoo/ Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro (01:14) Casey's journey and WeWork experience (08:39) Lessons from WeWork (14:19) Current Climate and Operators Guild (19:48) Sponsor: WorkVivo | Attio (20:45) Current pace of AI development (26:26) The Rise of the Operator (35:03) Importance of generalists in business (41:10) Building a Community: Lessons Learned (44:42) Future of operators and founding businesses (49:56) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com
Wed, May 29, 2024
In this episode of HR Heretics, Nolan and Kelli discuss an article from Business Insider about the ongoing white-collar recession, particularly affecting those earning over $100,000 a year. They discuss significant changes in the tech job market, including the influence of AI, global competition, and the shift from managerial roles to more individual contributor positions. The episode concludes with insights into personal fulfillment versus financial stability in career choices. Vanguard data reveals a hiring freeze for six-figure earners, impacting tech and finance. Is this the start of a white-collar recession? HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine . Discover Workvivo , Zoom’s employee experience platform, designed to delight your hybrid workforce. With dynamic and intuitive features people actually like using, Workvivo fosters a sense of belonging and boosts retention and productivity. Join Ryanair, Dollar General, and Virgin — head to https://bit.ly/hrhereticsworkvivo to book a demo (tell them Kelli and Nolan sent you). Attio is the next generation of CRM. It’s powerful, flexible, and easily configures to the unique way your startup runs, whatever your go-to-market motion. The next era deserves a better CRM. Join ElevenLabs, Replicate, Modal, and more at https://bit.ly/AttioHRHeretics KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich — TIMESTAMPS: 00:00 Introduction to the White Collar Recession 00:30 The Dichotomy of Employment Data 00:48 Challenges for High Earners 01:56 The Big Stay and Trapped in Place Economy 02:34 Industry-Specific Impacts 05:21 Global Competition and AI's Role 06:23 The Future of Tech Employment 08:34 Personal Reflections and Career Changes 08:43 Sponsor: Workvivo | Attio 11:12: First-World Work Problems 13:02: Self-Reflection and Assessment 15:34: On Gratitude on Salaries and Roles 16:11 Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com
Thu, May 23, 2024
In this episode of HR Heretics, Nolan and Kelli sit down with Nathan Tanner, an executive coach, author of The Unconquerable Leader, and former HR leader at DoorDash, Neighbor, and LinkedIn. Nathan demystifies the black box of coaching as a career path for people leaders, getting into the nitty-gritty of setting up the business, getting clients, and the economics of coaching. They also discuss the fine line between the empathy required of an HR leader, an executive coach, and a therapist. HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine. Share this with your friends, forward to your enemies. Hit subscribe now. This episode is brought to you by Attio Attio is the next generation of CRM. It’s powerful, flexible and easily configures to the unique way your startup runs, whatever your go-to-market motion. The next era deserves a better CRM. Join Replicate, ElevenLabs, Modal and more at https://bit.ly/AttioHRHeretics KEEP UP WITH NATHAN, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Nathan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nathantanner/ Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro (00:58) Nathan’s journey into coaching (02:53) Impact and philosophy of coaching (05:25) Navigating the coach, HR leader, and client relationship (13:08) What makes a great coach? (15:52) Sponsor: Attio (16:49) Assessing client’s perspectives (21:49) Lifecycle of a coaching relationship (24:29) Balancing revenue and client success (26:03) Strategies and challenges of building a client base (30:38) Economics of coaching (35:33) Maximizing your coaching business (39:34) Essential tools for success (42:20) Value of transparency and resilience (44:13) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com
Tue, May 21, 2024
Nolan Church breaks down what is happening over at OpenAI and what we know about three developing stories involving exec departures, equity, and transparency. Kelli is on vacation this week. He touches on: * The departure of Ilya Sutskever, co-founder and chief scientist, along with Jan Lieke * The journalistic investigation by Vox's Kelsey Piper, who broke the story of OpenAI's practice of requiring departing employees to sign life-long non-disclosure and non-disparagement agreements, threatening the loss of vested equity for breach * The incident involving Scarlett Johansson being approached to voice OpenAI’s AI, without her consent, raising questions about ethical use of voice likeness in AI technologies Nolan debriefs with lessons for HR leaders and company founders. HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine . SPONSOR: Attio is the next generation of CRM. It’s powerful, flexible, and easily configures to the unique way your startup runs, whatever your go-to-market motion. The next era deserves a better CRM. Join ElevenLabs, Replicate, Modal, and more at https://bit.ly/AttioHRHeretics KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro (00:47) The Big Departures: OpenAI's Executive Shake-Up (03:31) OpenAI's Controversial NDAs (05:12) Sponsors: Attio (08:21) The Scarlett Johansson Voice Saga (10:04) The Future of OpenAI and HR Lessons (10:50) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com
Thu, May 16, 2024
In this episode, Nolan and Kelli have an honest and transparent discussion with CEO and founder of Remote Job van der Voort (also the former VP of Product at GitLab) on the nuances of running an international remote company. Job strongly emphasises how trying to replicate the office environment in a remote setting doesn’t work and how giving small teams extreme autonomy with focus on outcome-based-management far outweighs surveillance and micro management. Kelli, Nolan and Job chat about early career growth and development in remote settings vs learning by osmosis in the office and how the company committed to developing new methodologies to mentor and train up juniors. Job also gives insights into the complexities of global hiring, geography-based compensation, and geographic mobility for remote workers and discusses the impact it has on contracts and mutual obligations. HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine . Share this with your friends, forward to your enemies. Hit subscribe now. SPONSOR: Attio is the next generation of CRM. It’s powerful, flexible and easily configures to the unique way your startup runs, whatever your go-to-market motion. The next era deserves a better CRM. Join Replicate, ElevenLabs, Modal and more at https://bit.ly/AttioHRHeretics KEEP UP WITH JOB, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Job: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jobvo/ Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro (00:53) Replicating Office Culture in Remote Settings (06:45) Embracing Asynchronous Work and Team Autonomy (09:48) Hiring and Training in a Remote-First World (13:51) Innovative Remote Work Practices and Tools (17:50) Addressing the Challenges of Remote Work (22:10) Remote's Approach to Documentation and Communication (26:00) International Employment and Expansion (26:54) Global Employment with Remote (28:10) Global Compensation Strategies (33:52) Equity and Performance in Global Teams (39:40) Mobility and Compensation In Employee Relocation (46:55) The Global Hiring Market and Future Trends (51.24) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com
Tue, May 14, 2024
In today's segment, Kelli welcomes back Janelle Lopez, discussing her recent career decision to take a second-in-command role at Coursera over the top Chief People Officer position elsewhere. She gives us an honest look into her decision-making, her networking efforts (75 meetings!), and how to assess a company for fit. HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine . -- SPONSOR: Attio is the next generation of CRM. It’s powerful, flexible, and easily configures to the unique way your startup runs, whatever your go-to-market motion. The next era deserves a better CRM. Join ElevenLabs, Replicate, Modal, and more at https://bit.ly/AttioHRHeretics -- KEEP UP WITH JANELLE, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Janelle: https://www.linkedin.com/in/janelle-lopez-29997a4/ Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro (00:27) Career Decision: Chief People Officer vs. Number Two Role (01:27) Networking (04:29) Evaluating Opportunities (08:04) The Real Power of Networking (12:01) Biggest Lessons From the Job Search (13:23) Janelle's Future Aspirations (14:20) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com
Thu, May 09, 2024
In this episode, Nolan and Kelli chat humanity in leadership with Michelle Weaver, CFO at Twitch (now part of Amazon). Michelle Weaver has 25 years experience including Hired (with Kelli), StitchFix, Axiom, Gap, Inc. and EA. Michelle emphasises the importance of a human-first leadership approach and that growth and learning can come from the projects you work on, not just promotions. The team all agree that building a strong relationship with the CFO builds a strong business foundation and knowing the business you’re in makes you a stronger leader. They also advocate for taking the wins from experiences with bad managers by being the outcome you want to see. Michelle also offers advice on selecting the company you want to work for and understanding the 'why' behind business numbers. She also goes deep on staying grounded through the M&A process and gives her own spin on personal growth and burnout in high-stress environments. HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine . Share this with your friends, forward to your enemies. Get new episodes straight to your inbox: HRHeretics.substack.com . SPONSOR: Attio is the next generation of CRM. It’s powerful, flexible and easily configures to the unique way your startup runs, whatever your go-to-market motion. The next era deserves a better CRM. Join Replicate, ElevenLabs, Modal and more at https://bit.ly/AttioHRHeretics KEEP UP WITH MICHELLE, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Michelle: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michelle-weaver/ Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro (01:45) The Human Side of Being a CFO (04:10) Rethinking Team Management and Development (06:20) Promotions and Organisational Changes (08:03) Sponsor Ad: Attio CRM (08:59) The Power of CFO and CPO Collaboration (12.18) Structural Alignments Within The Company (15.46) The CPO interviewing the CFO (17:16) Choosing the Right Company (21:10) The Expansion of Gaming (24:06) M&A Trends and Staying Grounded (27:37) The Role of a CFO in Navigating M&A Challenges (30:31) Deep Dive into the M&A Process (32:45) Red Flags and Deal Breakers in M&A (37:15) Addressing Burnout and Understanding What Your Passion Is (42:59) How to Discover Your Passion (48:00) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get ac
Tue, May 07, 2024
In today’s segment, Kelli and Nolan discuss the recent FTC ruling to ban non-compete agreements nationwide in the US, the broader implications of the ruling for employers and employees, and the future of AI and tech post-ban. HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine . SPONSOR: Attio is the next generation of CRM. It’s powerful, flexible, and easily configures to the unique way your startup runs, whatever your go-to-market motion. The next era deserves a better CRM. Join ElevenLabs, Replicate, Modal, and more at https://bit.ly/AttioHRHeretics KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) FTC Bans Non-Competes Nationwide (00:53) Personal Takes on the Non-Compete Ban (01:13) The Surprising Impact of Non-Competes Across Industries (02:49) Freedom and Innovation (05:09) Balancing Trade Secrets and Employee Freedom (07:33) The Future of Tech and AI Post-Ban (10:41) Embracing Side Hustles and Innovation (11:56) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com
Fri, May 03, 2024
In this episode of HR Heretics, Kelli and Nolan are joined by Kristy McCann Flynn, a seasoned HR professional with 25 years of experience, who shares her journey from working in traditional HR roles to founding SkillCycle, a company aimed at revolutionizing talent development and performance management. The lively debate covers the evolving role of HR, why HR software purchasing power might be changing, why HR practitioners are doing it wrong if the 50% of their time is spent hearing staff concerns, and as ever, the fundamental importance of aligning HR initiatives with business outcomes. HR Heretics is part of the Turpentine podcast network. Learn more: www.turpentine.co This episode is brought to you by Attio Attio is the next generation of CRM. It’s powerful, flexible and easily configures to the unique way your startup runs, whatever your go-to-market motion. The next era deserves a better CRM. Join Replicate, ElevenLabs, Modal and more at https://bit.ly/AttioHRHeretics LINKS: https://www.skillcycle.com/ KEEP UP WITH KRISTY, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Kristy: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kmflynn/ Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro (00:41) The Genesis of SkillCycle: A Response to Industry Frustrations (01:17) Navigating Corporate America's Challenges and Changes (03:29) Revolutionizing Talent Development (04:20) Transforming HR and Talent Management (04:54) Addressing the Skills Gap: A New Approach to HR Tech (05:33) The Business Case for Investing in Talent Development (09:04) SkillCycle's Strategy: Performance, Engagement, and Learning (09:26) Skill Development vs. Hiring (13:20) Sponsor: Attio (16:31) Enabling Your Entire Workforce (17:39) Investing in Employees Without Bias (20:04) Burnout in HR (24:18) The Future of HR and Shifting Focus to Business Leaders (27:37) Strategies for Professional Development and Growth (29:04) Navigating Budgets and Building Relationships with CFOs (31:02) The Importance of Business Acumen in HR (32:12) Redefining HR's Role Beyond Being a Complaint Department (37:29) On Engagement and Pulse Surveys (43:26) Transitioning from HR to CEO: Insights and Reflections (47:31) Optimism vs. Pessimism in Leadership (50:00) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com
Thu, May 02, 2024
In today's segment, Kelli and Nolan discuss Google firing employees who barricaded themselves in the CEO of Google Cloud Thomas Kurian's office for nine hours, to protest Google providing cloud computing services to the Israeli Ministry of Defense. Google CEO swiftly released a 'No Politics in the Workplace' message. The discussion explores the broader implications of protesting in the workplace, raises questions about protests and explores alternative ways to voice dissent without disruption. HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine . SPONSOR: Attio is the next generation of CRM. It’s powerful, flexible, and easily configures to the unique way your startup runs, whatever your go-to-market motion. The next era deserves a better CRM. Join ElevenLabs, Replicate, Modal, and more at https://bit.ly/attioturpentine KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) The Google Protest Controversy: An HR Perspective (01:23) Analyzing the Protest: Tactics and Consequences (02:35) The Fine Line Between Protest and Workplace Disruption (06:13) Google's Response and the Shift in Tech Culture (07:48) Sponsor: Attio (11:31) Exploring Solutions and the Future of Workplace Politics (14:19) Thoughts on Politics in the Workplace This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com
Fri, April 26, 2024
This week Kelli Dragovich and Nolan Church sit down with Peterson Conway, headhunter, investor, and advisor who shares insights from his epic career working closely with Silicon Valley greats like Peter Thiel, Kevin Hartz, Keith Rabois, and Joe Lonsdale. Conway has assembled talent for the founding/early teams of Xoom, Palantir, Founders Fund, and 8VC Strap in for some crazy stories. Conway's journey highlights the significance of curiosity, optimism, and unconventional hiring practices in Silicon Valley. Conway reflects on the profile of talent he looks for and drills down to certain keywords he uses to search for seeking individuals with strong convictions and a "fight from the bottom" spirit. HR Heretics is part of the Turpentine podcast network. Learn more: www.turpentine.co -- SPONSOR: Attio is the next generation of CRM. It’s powerful, flexible and easily configures to the unique way your startup runs, whatever your go-to-market motion. The next era deserves a better CRM. Join Replicate, ElevenLabs, Modal and more at https://bit.ly/AttioHRHeretics -- LINKS: Zero to 1 by Peter Thiel & Blake Masters: https://www.amazon.com.au/Zero-One-Notes-Startups-Future/dp/0804139296 Butthole Notorious: https://pconway-73418.medium.com/butthole-notorious-e4ac4ff12db4 Peterson Conway: https://www.petersonconway.com/ KEEP UP WITH PETERSON, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Peterson: https://www.linkedin.com/in/petersonconway/ Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Preview (01:49) Intro (02:41) Peterson's Unconventional Path to Silicon Valley Success (09:23) Navigating Challenges and Learning from Silicon Valley Titans (16:18) Exploring the Magic of Silicon Valley and Beyond (18:56) Sponsor: Attio (24:46) The Dynamics of Connectivity, Safety, and the Future of Work (27:37) Exploring the Intersection of Fear and Love (27:55) The Therapeutic Journey: From Fear to Healing (28:13) On Guilt, Shame, and Vulnerability (29:55) Unfiltered Conversations: Embracing Discomfort (31:42) The Power of Silence in Communication (32:26) Team Construction and the Quest for the Right Hire (35:04) Recruiting: From Elite Scho
Tue, April 23, 2024
In this segment , Nolan and Kelli discuss new information about Shopify's Mastery Program. Employees are assigned a mastery score, and if their score does not increase, they do not receive a raise. They cover the implications of this new approach, comparing it to previous systems used by other companies which also relied on ratings and algorithms to determine merit increases, and discuss the concept of creating a zero-sum game in the workplace. While not exactly new, internal competition is front and center in Shopify’s transparent new approach. HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine. SPONSOR: Attio is the next generation of CRM. It’s powerful, flexible and easily configures to the unique way your startup runs, whatever your go-to-market motion. The next era deserves a better CRM. Join Replicate, ElevenLabs, Modal and more at https://bit.ly/AttioHRHeretics LINKS: Shopify Mastery: https://www.shopify.com/news/mastery Information article: https://www.theinformation.com/articles/shopify-employees-go-head-to-head-for-raises-in-new-ranking-system KEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ TIMESTAMPS (00:00) Shopify's Mastery Program (04:34) Exploring the Broader Implications of Performance Review Systems (08:59) A New Era of Performance Management and Employee Evaluation (09:04) Sponsor: Attio CRM (09:57) Nolan’s Time at Carta (11:55) Commending More Experimentation This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com
Thu, April 18, 2024
In this episode, Nolan and Kelli discuss the audacious quest to change the HR market with Adam Weber, Chief Evangelist of 15Five. The team discuss the new reality of strategic HR business outcomes and the importance of developing and nurturing high-performance cultures and building great leaders, with the critical necessity of upskilling leadership development fast to adapt to new trends such as the addition of AI which will change the face of how we know HR today. Adam also advocates for having courage and standing up for what you believe is true in the business and valuing the role of the Individual Contributor. HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine . Subscribe to our substack: hrheretics.com SPONSOR: Attio is the next generation of CRM. It’s powerful, flexible and easily configures to the unique way your startup runs, whatever your go-to-market motion. The next era deserves a better CRM. Join Replicate, ElevenLabs, Modal and more at https://bit.ly/AttioHRHeretics LINKS: Adam wrote the best selling book Lead Like A Human on leadership and culture: how to bring your full self to work and unleash your full potential. HR Superstars podcast: https://www.15five.com/resources/podcast/ KEEP UP WITH ADAM, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Adam: https://www.linkedin.com/in/meetadam/ Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ TIMESTAMPS (00:00) Intro (02:57) From Founder to Team Member (03:09) Role Power In Practice (04:51) HR Superstars Community (05:26) Autonomy and Decision Making Post-Acquisition (07:22) The Amplify Team's Integration and Evolution Within 15Five (09:33) Old HR vs New HR: Changes and Expectations (13:44) What CEO’s think (15.23) Sponsor Ad: Attio CRM (16:40) Showing Courage and Backing Yourself (21:11) Understanding the Business on A Deeper Level (24:40) Superhero Mentality vs Delegator Mentality (27:10) AI’s Impact on HR (28:38) Upskilling and the Future of Work (29:16) The Dichotomy of Company Strategies on Upskilling (35:00) Celebrating Individual Contributors (41:00) Rethinking Best Practices and Embracing Experimentation (43:32) Visibility and Sharing Wins and Losses (46.12) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this
Tue, April 16, 2024
HR Heretics bestie Colleen McCreary joins Kelli Dragovich for today’s segment to discuss a recent viral post about a VP People candidate who was denied a job because she didn’t wear makeup . Colleen and Kelli discuss the expectations and norms about appearance in the workplace and the nuances of providing helpful feedback to candidates. — HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine . Share this with your friends, forward to your enemies. Subscribe at hrheretics.substack.com — SPONSOR: This episode is brought to you by AttioAttio is the next generation of CRM. It’s powerful, flexible and easily configures to the unique way your startup runs, whatever your go-to-market motion. The next era deserves a better CRM. Join Replicate, ElevenLabs, Modal and more at https://bit.ly/AttioHRHeretics KEEP UP WITH COLLEEN, KELLI + NOLAN ON LINKEDIN Colleen: https://www.linkedin.com/in/colleenmccrearychiefpplofficer/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ — LINKS: Viral Post: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/woman-says-she-denied-job-because-didnt-wear-makeup-aywoe/ Colleen’s Writing: https://medium.com/@colleenwheelermccreary — TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Colleen Guests on Today’s Segment (00:19) The Case of Melissa Weaver & Workplace Appearance Standards (07:20) Sponsor: Attio CRM (08:18) The Legal Perspective: Can Appearance Influence Hiring? (10:18) Navigating Interview Feedback (15:22) Authenticity at Work (15:55) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com
Thu, April 11, 2024
In this episode, Nolan and Kelli discuss “happiness police” overkill with Jeff Diana, former Chief People Officer of Calendly and Atlassian. They talk about the importance of being clear on who you are as a business to avoid massive swings and over-rotations in current HR programs. Jeff believes it’s driving shareholder value that creates employment and that HR pros need to think more like investors and shareholders with focus on business impact rather than focusing on employee satisfaction alone. Jeff also offers advice on being OK with saying no to a job that doesn’t “light you up”… and testing the alignment with HR philosophies and execution of business outcomes with the ones that do! He also offers advice on building a strong relationship with the CEO and is it better to report to a CFO or CEO if you’re aiming for that number 1 CPO role?! HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine . Share this with your friends, forward to your enemies. Hit subscribe now. SPONSOR: Attio is the next generation of CRM. It’s powerful, flexible and easily configures to the unique way your startup runs, whatever your go-to-market motion. The next era deserves a better CRM. Join Replicate, ElevenLabs, Modal and more at https://bit.ly/AttioHRHeretics KEEP UP WITH JEFF, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Jeff: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeff-diana/ Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro (01:24) The HR Market Today (02:37) The Shift in HR's Role (04:44) Understanding the Market Shift (05:05) Changes in HR's Role Amidst Economic and Cultural Shifts (09:23) Over-rotations in HR Programs including DEI and Employee Expectations (11.40) Sponsor: Attio CRM (14:19) Understanding Why Businesses Want To Cut HR (19:05) Embracing Business Model Changes as a Leader (23:00) Thinking Like an Investor (25:45) Employee-Employer Dynamics (26:52) Expectation Misalignment (29:24) Realigning Business Focus: Mission, Values, and HR Opportunities (33:23) Due Diligence in Career Moves and Hiring (36:51) Building Relationships With The CEO (45:43) Board Dynamics and CEO Feedback (49:39) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com
Tue, April 09, 2024
Kelli and Nolan discuss the news out of McKinsey this past week: generous packages for employees to opt out of their workforce. Is this a sign that there are no more golden tickets? Kelli and Nolan cover what this move says not only about McKinsey but about pedigreed qualifications more broadly. They also identify the key skillsets for this economy and the single most important thing you can do to make yourself recession-proof. HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine . SPONSOR:Attio is the next generation of CRM. It’s powerful, flexible, and easily configures to the unique way your startup runs, whatever your go-to-market motion. The next era deserves a better CRM. Join ElevenLabs, Replicate, Modal, and more at https://bit.ly/attioturpentine KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Preview (00:53) The Opt-Out Strategy: A Personal Perspective (01:52) Clarity and Transparency in Layoffs (03:00) Business Continuity During Layoffs (04:43) Rethinking the Value of Prestigious Institutions (08:25) Sponsor: Attio (09:22) Networking and Layoff-Proofing Your Career (10:39 )The Changing Landscape of Employment and Skills (13:35) Final Thoughts and Advice for Navigating the Job Market (14:00) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com
Thu, April 04, 2024
In this episode of HR Heretics, Nolan and Kelli chat all things “data from Carta” with Peter Walker, Head of Insights and Data Storytelling at Carta. They discuss Carta’s comprehensive report on startup compensation trends in H2 of 2023 influencing the flow of “dry powder” and the alarming increase in startup shutdowns. Peter proves VC’s will have less leeway in 2024 to throw good money after bad forecasting an even tougher year ahead. The team also discuss honesty in HR around equity structures, including liquidation preferences, and Peter offers advice for job candidates on evaluating startup offers with an investor's mindset. HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine . Share this with your friends, forward to your enemies. Hit subscribe now. This episode is brought to you by AttioAttio is the next generation of CRM. It’s powerful, flexible and easily configures to the unique way your startup runs, whatever your go-to-market motion. The next era deserves a better CRM. Join OpenAI, Replicate, ElevenLabs and more at https://bit.ly/AttioHRHeretics KEEP UP WITH PETER, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Peter: https://www.linkedin.com/in/peterjameswalker/ Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro: Peter Walker and Startup Compensation Trends (00:39) VC in 2023: Dry Powder and Capital Deployment (03:02) 2023's Investment Distribution: Early vs. Late Stage (07:43) Startup Shutdowns and Future Predictions (11.13) Sponsor Ad: Attio CRM (12:09) The M&A Market for Startups (15:05) The Impact of the Economic Shift on Startup Hiring and Industry Trends (21:59) Job Offers in Today's Market (22.30) Valuations and Equity in Job Negotiations (24:07) Key Questions Candidates Should Ask About Equity (25:34) Understanding Equity and Liquidation Preferences (27:59) Transparency in Startup Equity (30:17) Educational Resources and Support for Job Candidates (34:22) Options vs. RSUs in Late-Stage Companies (37:35) Startup Compensation (41:21) The Equity Dilemma: Exercising Options and Market Realities (42:32) Post termination Exercise Window (43:49) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com
Tue, April 02, 2024
Kelli and Nolan tackle the ongoing discussion around remote versus in-person work environments. They talk about the tradeoffs based on where you’re at in your career, the importance of questioning work environment structures, and encouraging listeners to consider what work environment aligns best with their current life phase. HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine . Learn more: www.turpentine.co SPONSOR: Attio is the next generation of CRM. It’s powerful, flexible and easily configures to the unique way your startup runs, whatever your go-to-market motion. The next era deserves a better CRM. Join OpenAI, Replicate, ElevenLabs and more at https://bit.ly/AttioHRHeretics KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro (00:17) Remote vs. In-Person Work Debate (01:16) Navigating the Remote Work Landscape (03:36) Work in the Office if You're Young in Your Career (06:50) Sponsor: Attio(07:46) Serendipitous Encounters (08:50) Reflecting on Work-Life Tradeoffs (10:33) Understanding the Seasons of Your Career( 12:16) Work Culture (13:00) A Sudden Interruption (13:08) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com
Thu, March 28, 2024
In this episode, Richard Ni joins Nolan and Kelli to discuss diving head first into a leadership role at Scale AI, a Series E AI startup that supplies data for AI models last valued at $7.3B. From software engineer turned Head of People, Richard talks about his experience heading into a role with zero experience but with an aptitude for people where he needed to be honest with himself about his limitations and how this became pivotal in his learning. He also talks about the importance of building trust with the CEO and the value of self-reflection in career decisions. The team also chat about being the bad guy in HR and building thick skin around unpopular company decisions. HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine . Share this with your friends, forward to your enemies. Subscribe to hrheretics.substack.com and never miss an episode or segment. --SPONSOR: Attio is the next generation of CRM. It’s powerful, flexible and easily configures to the unique way your startup runs, whatever your go-to-market motion. The next era deserves a better CRM. Join OpenAI, Replicate, ElevenLabs and more at https://bit.ly/AttioHRHeretics -- KEEP UP WITH RICHARD, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Richard: https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-ni/ Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ -- ]TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro (00:56) From Software Engineer to HR Leader (03:10) The transition from Cruise to Scale AI (04:33) Leveraging Technical Background in HR and Recruiting (06:22) Embracing Leadership Roles Early in Career (11:17) The Power of Authenticity and Self-Awareness in Career Growth (12:36) Sponsor: Attio CRM (16:43) Building Trust and Navigating HR Challenges (20:26) Learning from Mistakes and Valuing External Advice (23:44) Mentoring (24:22) Being the 'Bad Guy' in HR (25:19) Finding Balance: The Importance of Safe Spaces and Ownership (26:34) The Unpopularity of HR Decisions and Its Impact (30:21) Learning from Mistakes and Self Reflection (35:07) Valuing Your Own Happiness (38:18) Creating a Culture of Openness and Trust (43:09) Insights on Early Stage Hiring and CEO Involvement (49:24) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit <a href="https://hrheretics.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_
Tue, March 26, 2024
In this segment, Nolan and Kelli talk about how to be recession-proof and share tactical advice on network-building for a resilient career. HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine. SPONSOR: Attio is the next generation of CRM. It’s powerful, flexible and easily configures to the unique way your startup runs, whatever your go-to-market motion. The next era deserves a better CRM. Join OpenAI, Replicate, ElevenLabs and more at https://bit.ly/AttioHRHeretics KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Preview (00:24) How to be Layoff-Proof (01:00) Investing in Your Network and Building a Recession-Proof Career (07:08) Practical Steps to Expand Your Professional Network (10:02) The Job Doesn't Just Happen (12:35) Sponsor: Attio (13:32) Make Time to Keep Your Network Warm (15:24) Expand Your Surface Area of Luck (17:02) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com
Thu, March 21, 2024
In this episode Nolan and Kelli investigate the “recruiting is like art and science” analogy with the Chief People Officer at Pendo, JR Rettig. JR digs into the decisions that led her to the CPO seat, working closely with Kelli. JR also covers the needs for businesses to budget for leaving C-Suite leaders and succession planning, the advantages of a hybrid internal and external recruiting method for execs, and how to maintain a high bar in talent acquisition. HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine. Share this with your friends, forward to your enemies. Hit subscribe now. hrheretics.substack.com SPONSOR: This episode is brought to you by Attio Attio is the next generation of CRM. It’s powerful, flexible and easily configures to the unique way your startup runs, whatever your go-to-market motion. The next era deserves a better CRM. Join OpenAI, Replicate, ElevenLabs and more at https://bit.ly/AttioHRHeretics KEEP UP WITH JR, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN JR: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jenrettig/ Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro (00:22) How JR and Kelli Became Work Wives (05:35) Yin and Yang in Professional Relationships (08:26) CPO Seat Then and Now (11:06) Learning Together: The Secret Sauce of Success (14:10) Sponsor - Attio (15:06) Pulling top talent in a Competitive Tech Landscape (19:24) The CEO's Role in Hiring: Ensuring Quality Over Quantity (24:19) Scaling the Recruiting Team (28:19) Mindset Shift from Recruiter to TA Leader (30:11) Maintaining High Quality in Recruitment Amidst Challenges (34:26) Balancing In-House and Agency Recruitment (41:49) Succession Planning and Building Trust within Teams (45:40) A Culture of Openness and Trust for Smooth Transitions (50:49) What Really Makes a Great Company? (57:10) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com
Tue, March 19, 2024
This segment is all about getting promoted while playing the game of corporate politics, maintaining great relationships, and executing well in your role. In the second half, Kelli and Nolan discuss whether you can get promoted too fast. Forward this to any HR Pro who needs to hear it - and tell them to subscribe: hrheretics.substack.com -- SPONSOR: This episode is brought to you by Attio Attio is the next generation of CRM. It’s powerful, flexible and easily configures to the unique way your startup runs, whatever your go-to-market motion. The next era deserves a better CRM. Join OpenAI, Replicate, ElevenLabs and more at https://bit.ly/AttioHRHeretics -- TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro (00:36) What Drives Promotion Obsession? (01:18) Get Your Foot in the Door, Then Climb the Corporate Ladder (02:13) The Game of Corporate Politics and Relationships (04:26) Get Used to the Politics… (05:21) …But Don’t Be Like a Slimy Car Salesman (06:21) Advocating for Yourself (09:10) Sponsor: Attio (10:05) The Double-Edged Sword of Rapid Promotion (12:38) Framework for Employee Scaling (14:51) The Dirty Secret of A Founder Not Doing Well (16:48) Wrap — GET IN TOUCH WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ HR Heretics is a podcast from the Turpentine podcast network. Learn more at www.turpentine.co This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com
Thu, March 14, 2024
In this episode, Nolan and Kelli host A.J. Thomas of X, the moonshot factory from Alphabet. A.J for a discussion about failure, innovation, and embracing adversity. They also discuss the importance of scenario planning and asking all the questions upfront as a baseline for business optimization. While at X, A.J. embraces the notion that professional breakthrough requires personal breakthrough and her perspective on the relentless pursuit of truth, dispassionate assessment, and the power of curiosity provides invaluable insights into cultivating a mindset of innovation and resilience. Share this with your friends, forward to your enemies. Subscribe to our Substack: https://hrheretics.substack.com/ . HR Heretics is part of the Turpentine podcast network. HR Heretics is brought to you by Attio the next generation of CRM. It’s powerful, flexible and easily configures to the unique way your startup runs, whatever your go-to-market motion. The next era deserves a better CRM. Join OpenAI, Replicate, ElevenLabs and more at https://bit.ly/AttioHRHeretics TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro (02:07) Unique Approach to Onboarding (10:09) Creative Hiring and Community Outreach (13:07) Change and Clarity (14:20) Sponsor: Attio (15:52) Scenario Planning (19:07) AJ's Journey to X, Google’s Moonshot Factory (29:56) Embracing Failure (33:00) The Unrecruiting Route - Why You Shouldn't Join (42:23) Dispassionate Assessment (44:46) The Relentless Pursuit of Truth (47:58) Authenticity (50:48) Being on the Front Line and the Quest for Learning KEEP UP WITH A.J., NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN A.J.: https://www.linkedin.com/in/angelejeanthomas/ Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com
Tue, March 12, 2024
This segment delves into the intricacies of board member dynamics, specifically focusing on the removal of board members. Highlighted by the situation involving Michael Moritz's removal from Klarna's board, the discussion covers the complexities and nuances of board construction, including the distinction between preferred and independent board members, contract terms, and the impact of diversity. We need to demystify board operations — how they work, voting dynamics, and what they do! Open call for any listener (ex-CEO preferred) who can come dig into the gritty details of board dynamics in a future episode. Forward this to any HR Pro who needs to hear some real talk - and tell them to subscribe. hrheretics.substack.com -- SPONSOR: This episode is brought to you by Attio Attio is the next generation of CRM. It’s powerful, flexible and easily configures to the unique way your startup runs, whatever your go-to-market motion. The next era deserves a better CRM. Join OpenAI, Replicate, ElevenLabs and more at https://bit.ly/AttioHRHeretics -- TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro (01:22) The Complex World of Boards (03:53) Sponsor - Attio (04:48) Nolan and Kelli Share their Experiences and Expectations of Board Members (07:52) Picking Investors and Board Members (08:22) Board Construction (09:52) Diversity of Boards When A Company Matures (10:32) Stories From DoorDash (11:32) The Mysterious Notion of Board Votes and Equity Approval -- GET IN TOUCH WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ HR Heretics is a podcast from the Turpentine podcast network. Learn more at www.turpentine.co This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com
Fri, March 08, 2024
Do companies need HR? Kelli and Nolan discuss a recent episode of All In (the #1 Business podcast in the world) which championed a utopian vision of dismantling HR inside companies, a conversation ignited by Sequoia’s Shaun Maguire exposing Google’s promotion policies. Kelli and Nolan discuss how we even got to this point of frustration, what’s worth decentralizing, and what would fall apart without HR. What do you think?Forward this to any HR Pro who needs to hear some real talk - and tell them to subscribe: video episodes in your inbox: hrheretics.substack.com This episode is brought to you by Attio. Attio is the next generation of CRM. It’s powerful, flexible and easily configures to the unique way your startup runs, whatever your go-to-market motion. The next era deserves a better CRM. Join OpenAI, Replicate, ElevenLabs and more at https://bit.ly/AttioHRHeretics TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Emergency Segment (00:49) Discussion on the All In Podcast's Take on HR (01:05) Shaun Maguire’s Tweet About Google (02:16) Debate on the Role and Future of HR (08:56) Sponsor: Attio (09:55) High Growth Companies Without HR? (11:37) HR & Business Outcomes (15:27) CTA — GET IN TOUCH WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ HR Heretics is a podcast from the Turpentine podcast network. Learn more at www.turpentine.co This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com
Tue, March 05, 2024
In today’s segment, Kelli and Nolan discusses Shopify's recent announcement of their ‘~Mastery’ dual track system, rewarding management and craftspeople equally. Kelli and Nolan also delve into topics such job leveling, advancement, and performance reviews and share personal stories from DoorDash and Yahoo.Forward this to any HR Pro who needs to hear some real talk - and tell them to subscribe: hrheretics.substack.com -- SPONSOR:This episode is brought to you by Attio, the next generation of CRM. It’s powerful, flexible and easily configures to the unique way your startup runs, whatever your go-to-market motion. The next era deserves a better CRM. Join OpenAI, Replicate, ElevenLabs and more at https://bit.ly/AttioHRHeretics --TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Introduction to Shopify's New Mastery Approach (01:09) Nolan and Kelli’s Initial Reactions (2:13) The Concept of Six-Month Work Sprints (05:43) IC Track and Manager Track (07:20) The DoorDash Story (08:42) Sponsor - Attio (09:39) The Evolution of Workforce and Organizational Structures (14:07) Shifting from Management to Mastery Roles --LINKS:Shopify Mastery: https://www.shopify.com/news/mastery --GET IN TOUCH WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ -- HR Heretics is a podcast from the Turpentine podcast network. Learn more at www.turpentine.co This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com
Thu, February 29, 2024
In this episode, Kelli and special guest co-host Colleen McCreary go from 0 to 100 with David Heinemeier Hansson (DHH), creator of Ruby on Rails and co-founder of 37signals (Basecamp). The discussion covers 37signals’ radical policies and the “no politics at work” policy that got them canceled on Twitter after corporate America “went woke”. They also discuss the no managers rule that embraces more efficiency in a limited 40 hour work week and why overworking is a dated mindset. David also talks about his love of programming and the development of Ruby on Rails through his unique approach, and how it went on to impact other programmers. Share this with your friends, forward to your enemies. Susbscribe now: Hrheretics.substack.com HR Heretics is part of the Turpentine podcast network. Learn more at turpentine.co -- This episode is brought to you by Attio Attio is the next generation of CRM. It’s powerful, flexible and easily configures to the unique way your startup runs, whatever your go-to-market motion. The next era deserves a better CRM. Join OpenAI, Replicate, ElevenLabs and more at https://bit.ly/AttioHRHeretics -- KEEP UP WITH DHH, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN DHH: https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-heinemeier-hansson-374b18221/ Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Preview (05:00) Creating Ruby on Rails: DHH's Experience (10:00) Making Your Code Sing (12:31) The Role of Management (14:34) Sponsor - Attio (16:21) Code is Easy, People are Hard - Aligning and Developing Philosophies (20:50) Refining the Work Week and How to Get More Out of It (25:53) Having a Creative Space Within a 40-hour Work Week (31:01) Office Work vs Remote Work (34:27) Discussing Diversity and Choices in Companies (36:10) Wokeness and Surviving Cancel Culture (41:42) The Importance of Clarity and Identity (47:18) Radical Candor (50:54) The Misinterpretation of Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (56:58) Honest Conversations in the Workplace (59:50) DHH's Take on the HR Profession (01:05:35) Wrap— -- LINKS: Radical Candor by Kim Scott DHH's Writing: https://world.hey.com/dhh Employee Handbook: <a target="_blank" href="https://basecamp.com/
Tue, February 27, 2024
This segment is sparked by the situation at Bolt, where employees who participated in an employee loan program were impacted by the company's valuation which was slashed by 97%. Kelli and Nolan discuss the post termination exercising window, the need for employees to be better educated about equity, and share personal experiences with options. Forward this to any HR Pro who needs to hear it - and tell them to subscribe hrheretics.substack.com SPONSOR: Attio is the next generation of CRM. It’s powerful, flexible and easily configures to the unique way your startup runs, whatever your go-to-market motion. The next era deserves a better CRM. Join OpenAI, Replicate, ElevenLabs and more at https://bit.ly/AttioHRHeretics TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Bolt’s revaluation and how it affected employees (03:30) Get smart about equity (04:00) Carta’s Guides to Equity (05:00) Post termination exercise window (08:00) Sponsor: Attio (09:00) Why 90 days? (10:25) Nolan’s personal story with his options from DoorDash (13:00) Early employees get screwed (14:00) Request for crowdsourced google sheet LINKS: Carta Equity 101 - https://carta.com/equity/learn/ Carta Equity 102 - https://carta.com/blog/personal-finance-102-table-stakes/ GET IN TOUCH WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ HR Heretics is a podcast from the Turpentine podcast network. Learn more at www.turpentine.co This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com
Thu, February 22, 2024
We are so excited to bring you Kelli and Nolan’s interview with L.J. Brock, the CPO of Coinbase – a trailblazing company that has come under scrutiny in the press for their ‘no politics at work’ stance and talent density policies. L.J discusses how Coinbase continues to innovate to drive the company mission, how they ensure the company hiring standards stay at the highest level, how he works with Coinbase’s CEO Brian Armstrong to conceive of new policies, and how Coinbase sees career development. Share this with your friends, forward to your enemies. Subscribe to our Substack: https://hrheretics.substack.com/ HR Heretics is part of the Turpentine podcast network. Learn more at turpentine.co This episode is brought to you by Attio Attio is the next generation of CRM. It’s powerful, flexible and easily configures to the unique way your startup runs, whatever your go-to-market motion. The next era deserves a better CRM. Join OpenAI, Replicate, ElevenLabs and more at https://bit.ly/AttioHRHeretics KEEP UP WITH L.J., NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN L.J.: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lbrock/ Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Preview and Intro (02:34) Coinbase's Controversial No Politics at Work Policy (07:29) The Aftermath of the No Politics Policy (11:25) Running Headfirst Into Your Death Moment (13:53) Talent Evaluation: Designing an Interview Process That Gives A Realistic Preview (15:46) Sponsor - Attio (17:53) Coinbase's Process of Implementing Radical Changes (24:13) Making Two-Way Door and One-Way Door Decisions (25:27) On Transparency and the Challenges of Innovating and Implementing Change (27:51) Sprint Concept (29:25) How Talent Density Came to Be at Coinbase (35:10) The Impact of Hiring Processes on Talent Density (36:57) Challenges of Implementing Real-Time Feedback (43:00) Doing Work Trials (45:47) Being More Equitable and Diverse (48:46) Moving to Single Pay Target and Stock Grants (55:41) Grooming and Developing More CPOs and HR Leaders (59:52) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com
Tue, February 20, 2024
In this episode Kelli Dragovich and Nolan Church talk with Elizabeth Patterson , Partner (People & Talent) at Sapphire Ventures. The conversation is all about how to find the best CPO roles, how VC talent partners actually work, and what it's like engaging with portfolio companies and execs. Lots of insider info. Elizabeth manages Sapphire Venture’s human capital network, including the Sapphire Fellows program. HR Heretics is part of the Turpentine podcast network. Learn more at turpentine.co This episode is brought to you by Attio Attio is the next generation of CRM. It’s powerful, flexible and easily configures to the unique way your startup runs, whatever your go-to-market motion. The next era deserves a better CRM. Join OpenAI, Replicate, ElevenLabs and more at https://bit.ly/AttioHRHeretics KEEP UP WITH ELIZABETH,NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN - Elizabeth: https://www.linkedin.com/in/elizabetharnsdorfpatterson/ Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Preview (03:17) Stories (08:08) Navigating the Venture Capital World (11:00) The Gotchas and Ahas of Finding the Best Opportunity into Venture Capital (13:50) How Success is Measured (16:00) Sponsor - Attio (17:11) How to Find the Best CPO Roles (22:56) The Relationship Between Talent Partners and Executive Recruiters (27:24) Correlating the Business with Cultural Fit and Vibe in Recruitment (31:28) Back Channels in Recruitment (35:49) Executive Compensation on Recruitment (40:18) How Photographic Memory Helps in Recruitment (45:53) Elizabeth's Favorite Interview Question (48:02) Qualities of a Great Leader This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com
Thu, February 15, 2024
In this episode, Nolan and special guest co-host Colleen McCreary delve into diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) with Mita Mallick of Carta. Mita is the Head of Inclusion, Equity and Impact at Carta and the author of Reimagine Inclusion . They discuss the benefits of cross-cultural marketing, how DEI roles aren't set up for success in tech companies, inclusion as a business driver, and successful career succession planning. Want more Colleen? Check out her DEI Roundtable episode here ( https://hrheretics.substack.com/p/colleen-mccreary-on-layoffs-m-and-7cb ) and our 3rd ever episode interviewing Colleen about her career ups and downs ( https://hrheretics.substack.com?utm_source=navbar&utm_medium=web&r=39tmjr ) SPONSOR: Attio Attio is the next generation of CRM. It’s powerful, flexible and easily configures to the unique way your startup runs, whatever your go-to-market motion. The next era deserves a better CRM. Join OpenAI, Replicate, ElevenLabs and more at https://bit.ly/AttioHRHeretics We highly recommend you subscribe to HR Brew : a free daily newsletter for people leaders and operators https://bit.ly/hrbrew TIMESTAMPS: * (00:00) Introduction * (01:09) Welcome to HR Heretics * (01:31) Intro to Mita Malik * (02:56) Shout Out to HR Brew https://bit.ly/hrbrew * (04:00) Mita's Book Reimagine Inclusion * (05:42) Mita's Career in DEI * (08:52) The Importance of Inclusion in Business * (14:37) Sponsor: Attio * (15:40) Measuring Success of Inclusion * (20:54) The Role of Leadership in Diversity * (28:55) The Myth of Meritocracy * (30:02) Realities of Career Progression * (31:36) Talent Management * (34:59) The Importance of Honest Feedback * (38:12) The Role of Inclusion in Competitive Advantage * (49:05) The Impact of Generational Shifts on Workplace Norms * (49:55) Wrap LINKS: Mita Mallick’s book Reimagine Inclusion: Debunking 13 Myths to Transform Your Workplace KEEP UP WITH MITA, COLLEEN, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Mita: https://www.linkedin.com/
Tue, February 13, 2024
This segment is sparked by a recent viral video of a layoff recorded by an employee. Kelli and Nolan cover the recent layoffs at Google and Cloudflare, how treatment of an employee during the layoff impacts both the employee and employer, and how companies should handle parting ways with an employee in 2024. Forward this to any HR Pro who needs to hear it - and tell them to subscribe: https://hrheretics.substack.com/ . Timestamps: (00:00) Special segment alert (00:17) January is the biggest month in the last 20 years for layoffs in tech (01:10) Kelli's take (02:41) Bad behavior, bad policies and the need for big tech companies to be called out for doing rolling layoffs (04:32) Google layoffs (05:20) Cloudflare employee records her layoff (06:10) The litmus test of being part of a team (not just HR teams) (07:03) When CEOs think they can get away with bad behavior since other companies do it (08:05) What happens when you don't treat employees in good faith (10:05) Accountability checks on companies during layoffs (11:20) Back to the golden rule (11:41) Important reminder for employers GET IN TOUCH WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ HR Heretics is a podcast from the Turpentine podcast network. Learn more at turpentine.co This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com
Fri, February 09, 2024
In this episode Kelli Dragovich and Nolan Church sit down with Brigette McInnis-Day , CPO of UIPath — a people leader at the biggest company we’ve had repped on the podcast to date.Timestamps and the transcript of our episode with Brigette are below. We love feedback! Subscribe to our substack to get VIDEO episodes in your inbox. You can also always listen to the podcast on Apple & Spotify. ---- We highly recommend you subscribe to HR Brew: a free daily newsletter for people leaders and operators https://bit.ly/hrbrew ---- KEEP UP WITH BRIGETTE, KELLI, + NOLANBrigette McInnis-Day: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brigettemcinnisday/Kelli Dragovich: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/Nolan Church: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ ----TIMESTAMPS* (00:00) Intro * (02:38) Shout Out to HR Brew https://bit.ly/hrbrew * (04:07) The Looker Acquisition by Google * (05:04) The Role of HR in M&A * (14:12) The UiPath Team Construction * (21:11) Building a Company with the Right HR Toolkit * (21:35) The Importance of Prioritizing in a High-Growth Company * (24:56) Pay Transparency and Pay Equity * (33:08) The Future of Comp * (38:41) Negotiating * (41:56) Learning from Failures in HR * (47:51) The Strategy of Hiring a SuccessorHR Heretics is a part of Turpentine podcast network. Learn more at www.turpentine.co This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com
Tue, February 06, 2024
This segment is dedicated to covering what rising mid-career HR professionals really want to know. Janelle Lopez, an incredible HR professional, is brought in to interview us about her next move. Janelle, who worked at Yahoo and SurveyMonkey, has 12 years of transformative experiences under her belt, yet finds herself faced with biases and apprehensions from CEOs and founders reluctant to hire a 'number two'. Kelli and Nolan offer advice about taking control of the narrative during the hiring process and leaning into work trials. Forward our substack to any HR Pro who needs to hear it - and tell them to Subscribe: https://hrheretics.substack.com TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro & Janelle’s background (01:46) What should Janelle’s next steps be? (02:07) The Debate: Number One or Number Two Role? (07:45) Overcoming Biases and vhallenges during the search (08:14) The reframe: loyalty and learning (15:45) Imposter syndrome (17:02) Work Trials GET IN TOUCH WITH JANELLE, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Janelle: https://www.linkedin.com/in/janelle-lopez-29997a4/ Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com
Tue, January 30, 2024
The only reason we do interviews is because we’ve done them in the past. Hear Nolan and Kelli discuss Linear’s recent announcement that they’re moving from interviews to work trials for all candidates ( https://twitter.com/linear/status/1735019663875264958 ) Also discussed is Nolan’s experience with a failed interview policy from his time at Google.Let us know what you think by sending us a message on LinkedIn, sharing your thoughts in the comments. Our substack is new and we’re excited about this new way to watch the podcast, so we’d appreciate you subscribing, sharing and forwarding this to anyone you think would love it. This episode is brought to you by Continuum. Hire Fractional Executives with Continuum using this link: https://bit.ly/40hlRa9 There is no hidden cost, you only pay the person you hire. And you can cancel at any time. KEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN - Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ - Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ rjJKJsGxi3r4iX7Qh5uo This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com
Fri, January 26, 2024
In this episode Kelli Dragovich and Nolan Church sit down with Katelin Holloway, founding partner at VC firm 776 which she started with Alexis Ohanian. Holloway, the former VP of People at Reddit, shares insights from her experience both in HR and breaking into venture. Katelin shares a ton of practical advice - and tactics - for HR leaders who want to start investing or break into VC, explaining how to develop a founder-focussed approach, the benefits of advising relationships, and the need to deliver value.We highly recommend subscribing to free newsletter HR Brew: https://bit.ly/hrbrew –KEEP UP WITH KATELIN, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Katelin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/katelinholloway/ Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ –In addition to being a partner at a VC firm, Katelin hosts the excellent podcast All Hands which we recommend: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/all-hands/id1515795663 –TIMESTAMPS:|(00:00) Preview(00:46) Intro(04:24) Waking up one day in the boardroom: Katelin's career journey in HR(11:50) Sponsor - Lattice | Continuum(13:48) On meeting Alexis Ohanian and the evolution of their relationship(19:03) Getting more people leaders in venture(22:33) The fork in the road: how to transition out successfully from an organization(27:45) Why aren't there a lot of HR people working in venture?(37:32) Katelin's gripes with the VC operating system, and how it’s changing(42:20) Building an investor reputation and brand starts with building a good relationship with founders(49:27) Tactics: How to become an investor(56:22) Past experiences that helped Katelin get to where she is now(58:50) Wrap✅ Discover HR software that drives performance with Lattice: https://www.lattice.com/hrheretics High performance and great culture should never be at odds; they’re better together. With Lattice People Management Platform, companies efficiently run people programs that create enviable cultures where employees want to do their best work. Serving 1000s of customers of all sizes. Learn why companies from Slack to the LA Dodgers choose Lattice. https://www.lattice.com/hrheretics ✅ Hire Fractional Executives with Continuum using this link: https://bit.ly/40hlRa9 Have you ever had a negative experience hiring executives? Continuum connects executives and senior operators to venture-backed tech companies for fractional and full-time roles. You can post any executive-l
Thu, January 18, 2024
In this episode of HR Heretics, we have a conversation with Matt Oberhardt, partner at Andreessen Horowitz (a16z), about the complexities of recruiting executives and finding talent. Matt explains the importance of precision in referencing and maintaining professionalism in recruitment processes. We also cover specific advice for founders, the transition of veterans into start-ups, and dealing with the 2024 macro and job market. Find the best fractional execs at Continuum: https://bit.ly/40hlRa9 HR Heretics is part of the Turpentine podcast network. Learn more: www.turpentine.co -- SPONSORS: Lattice | Continuum ✅ Discover HR software that drives performance with Lattice: https://www.lattice.com/hrheretics High performance and great culture should never be at odds; they’re better together. With Lattice People Management Platform, companies efficiently run people programs that create enviable cultures where employees want to do their best work. Serving 1000s of customers of all sizes. Learn why companies from Slack to the LA Dodgers choose Lattice. https://www.lattice.com/hrheretics ✅ Hire Fractional Executives with Continuum using this link: https://bit.ly/40hlRa9 Have you ever had a negative experience hiring executives? Continuum connects executives and senior operators to venture-backed tech companies for fractional and full-time roles. You can post any executive-level role to Continuum’s marketplace and search through our database of world-class, vetted leaders. There is no hidden cost, you only pay the person you hire. And you can cancel at any time. www.Joincontinuum.com – KEEP UP WITH MATT, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Matt: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattoberhardt/ Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ – LINKS: Andreessen Horowitz Exec Hiring Guide: https://a16z.com/executive-hiring/ – TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro (03:21) Matt's Role at a16z and Approach in Talent Assessment (06:10) Balancing External and Internal Roles (07:35) Measuring Success in Talent Assessment (09:10) The MOC Process in Executive Hiring (15:02) Assessing Fit in Executive Hiring (18:39) Effective Reference Processing (22:25) Support our sponsors: Lattice | Continuum (24:35) Dealing with Negative References (26:48) The Importance of Nuance in Hiring (27:46) The Concept of Personal Growth in Candidates (28:43) Reengaging with Executives and Understanding Their Growth (29:56) The Challenge of Making Decisions as a Founder (37:44) The Role of Veterans in Startups (44:16) The Impact of Market Shifts on Hiring (46:49) The Challenge of Retaining Top Talent (50:55) The Value of Tough Feedback in Interviews This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com
Thu, January 11, 2024
Jen Trzepacz, or JT as she's widely known, is a Silicon Valley vet (Yahoo, EA, Salesforce, Living Social) and currently the CPO of SymphonyAI. JT joins Kelli Dragovich and Nolan Church to talk about how HR needs to be expertly aligned with the business bottom line, how to do transparency around compensation well, how to recruit the best talent, navigating complicated CEO relationships, and takes us on a trip down memory lane for her biggest F-ups. HR Heretics is part of the Turpentine podcast network. Learn more: www.turpentine.co -- SPONSORS: Lattice | Continuum ✅ Discover HR software that drives performance with Lattice: https://www.lattice.com/hrheretics High performance and great culture should never be at odds; they’re better together. With Lattice People Management Platform, companies efficiently run people programs that create enviable cultures where employees want to do their best work. Serving 1000s of customers of all sizes. Learn why companies from Slack to the LA Dodgers choose Lattice. https://www.lattice.com/hrheretics ✅ Hire Fractional Executives with Continuum using this link: https://bit.ly/40hlRa9 Have you ever had a negative experience hiring executives? Continuum connects executives and senior operators to venture-backed tech companies for fractional and full-time roles. You can post any executive-level role to Continuum’s marketplace and search through our database of world-class, vetted leaders. There is no hidden cost, you only pay the person you hire. And you can cancel at any time. www.Joincontinuum.com – KEEP UP WITH JT, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN JT: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jetrzepacz/ Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ – TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Preview and Intro (04:33) Jen's biggest F-ups in her career (07:35) The merit files of Yahoo and the ripple effects (15:12) JT's thoughts on comp transparency today (20:09) Sponsor - Lattice | Continuum (21:54) Making hard trade offs and understanding competitive differentiation (41:10) When the relationship between a CEO and CPO doesn't work (47:01) JT's best hire and her secret weapon in the candidate experience (51:49) JT's favorite interview question that gets the be
Mon, January 08, 2024
Friends of the podcast and experienced CPOs Colleen McCreary (CreditKarma, Zynga, Twilio, EA) and David Hanrahan (Flare, formerly EventBrite, Zendesk) join hosts Kelli Dragovich and Nolan Church for this roundtable discussion of where the puck is going for DEI in 2024. They offer their takes on the progress made over the years, the current camps in this debate propelled by the recent capitol hill hearings and Harvard controversy, and the necessity of founders and companies to better understand their own priorities and define their position on DEI. Check out our individual episodes with both Colleen and David who have both been former guests on the show! Colleen McCreary on Layoffs, M&A, and Recruiting the Best Talent - https://open.spotify.com/episode/0WuLzUYeDaPIsOTbtTCZFD?si=aLgdLcjTR0eK6wBCv6KrGw David Hanrahan on High Performance, Comp Strategy, Performance Cycles, and New Norms - https://open.spotify.com/episode/46H0HSchsnl52DaP9aPsrG?si=jTZ9tTjzR36cNsdqPkjrAQ HR Heretics is part of the Turpentine podcast network. Learn more: www.turpentine.co – SPONSORS: Lattice | Continuum ✅ Discover HR software that drives performance with Lattice: https://www.lattice.com/hrheretics High performance and great culture should never be at odds; they’re better together. With Lattice People Management Platform, companies efficiently run people programs that create enviable cultures where employees want to do their best work. Serving 1000s of customers of all sizes. Learn why companies from Slack to the LA Dodgers choose Lattice. https://www.lattice.com/hrheretics ✅ Hire Fractional Executives with Continuum using this link: https://bit.ly/40hlRa9 Have you ever had a negative experience hiring executives? Continuum connects executives and senior operators to venture-backed tech companies for fractional and full-time roles. You can post any executive-level role to Continuum’s marketplace and search through our database of world-class, vetted leaders. There is no hidden cost, you only pay the person you hire. And you can cancel at any time. www.Joincontinuum.com – KEEP UP WITH Q, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Colleen: https://www.linkedin.com/in
Thu, January 04, 2024
Q Hamirani, the Chief People Officer at Paper, joins Kelli Dragovich and Nolan Church to discuss navigating the CPO seat under immense pressure, the real deal behind Airbnb's remote work policy, how design thinking helps solve people problems, and how the people function should not be left behind by the AI revolution. They also touch on great stories and tactical insights from Q's time as AirBnB s and his current CPO role at edtech company Paper ( https://paper.co/ ). Learn more about Q's AI community for people leaders: https://www.thepeoplegpt.com/ HR Heretics is part of the Turpentine podcast network. Learn more: www.turpentine.co -- SPONSORS: Lattice | Continuum ✅ Discover HR software that drives performance with Lattice: https://www.lattice.com/hrheretics High performance and great culture should never be at odds; they’re better together. With Lattice People Management Platform, companies efficiently run people programs that create enviable cultures where employees want to do their best work. Serving 1000s of customers of all sizes. Learn why companies from Slack to the LA Dodgers choose Lattice. https://www.lattice.com/hrheretics ✅ Hire Fractional Executives with Continuum using this link: https://bit.ly/40hlRa9 Have you ever had a negative experience hiring executives? Continuum connects executives and senior operators to venture-backed tech companies for fractional and full-time roles. You can post any executive-level role to Continuum’s marketplace and search through our database of world-class, vetted leaders. There is no hidden cost, you only pay the person you hire. And you can cancel at any time. www.Joincontinuum.com – KEEP UP WITH Q, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Q: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hamirani/ Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ – TIMESTAMPS: 00:00) Preview (01:30) Q's wild background (07:40) How the engineer in Q handled the rejection going into HR (09:27) Having a business background (11:37) Balancing the dynamics of design thinking and love for iteration (13:07) Transitioning
Thu, December 28, 2023
At scaling companies. navigating parting ways with an executive requires finesse, strategic insights, and insider experience. Run The Numbers podcast invited Kelli and Nolan to break down every facet, lever, and little known facts behind successfully exiting execs. Its a great conversation - Kelli and Nolan have seen it all and break down termination packages, terms like double trigger and garden leave, exec pay parity, and how to fire CEOs. Definitely check out Run The Numbers! Listen wherever you get your podcasts: https://link.chtbl.com/runthenumbers HR Heretics is part of the Turpentine podcast network. Learn more: www.turpentine.co -- SPONSORS: Lattice | Continuum ✅ Discover HR software that drives performance with Lattice: https://www.lattice.com/hrheretics High performance and great culture should never be at odds; they’re better together. With Lattice People Management Platform, companies efficiently run people programs that create enviable cultures where employees want to do their best work. Serving 1000s of customers of all sizes. Learn why companies from Slack to the LA Dodgers choose Lattice. https://www.lattice.com/hrheretics ✅ Hire Fractional Executives with Continuum using this link: https://bit.ly/40hlRa9 Have you ever had a negative experience hiring executives? Continuum connects executives and senior operators to venture-backed tech companies for fractional and full-time roles. You can post any executive-level role to Continuum’s marketplace and search through our database of world-class, vetted leaders. There is no hidden cost, you only pay the person you hire. And you can cancel at any time. www.Joincontinuum.com – RECOMMENDED PODCAST: Run The Numbers Definitely check out Run The Numbers! Listen wherever you get your podcasts: https://link.chtbl.com/runthenumbers – KEEP UP WITH NOLAN, KELLI , and CJ Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ CJ: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cj-gustafson-13140948/ – TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro (02:08) Exe
Thu, December 21, 2023
Dan Portillo is the founder and GP of The General Partnership, a fund that prioritizes talent in a network-based approach. Formerly he was early-Mozilla and then went on to Greylock where he carved out a role as a talent partner. Dan talks to Nolan and Kelli about how VC and VC talent partners operate, an influential world that most people in the venture and startup ecosystem don't actually know that much about. They also talk about backchannels, going from HR leadership roles to finding success as an advisor, and the necessary skill of framing new ideas as experiments. HR Heretics is part of the Turpentine podcast network. Learn more: www.turpentine.co -- SPONSORS: Lattice | Continuum ✅ Discover HR software that drives performance with Lattice: https://www.lattice.com/hrheretics High performance and great culture should never be at odds; they’re better together. With Lattice People Management Platform, companies efficiently run people programs that create enviable cultures where employees want to do their best work. Serving 1000s of customers of all sizes. Learn why companies from Slack to the LA Dodgers choose Lattice. https://www.lattice.com/hrheretics ✅ Hire Fractional Executives with Continuum using this link: https://bit.ly/40hlRa9 Have you ever had a negative experience hiring executives? Continuum connects executives and senior operators to venture-backed tech companies for fractional and full-time roles. You can post any executive-level role to Continuum’s marketplace and search through our database of world-class, vetted leaders. There is no hidden cost, you only pay the person you hire. And you can cancel at any time. www.Joincontinuum.com – RECOMMENDED PODCAST: Check out Run The Numbers! Kelli and Nolan were guests on the most recent episode: a deep dive into FIRING CEOs and EXECS. This one's hilarious. Listen here, wherever you get your podcasts: https://link.chtbl.com/runthenumbers – KEEP UP WITH DAN, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Dan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielportillo/ Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ – TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Preview (02:40) Dan talks
Fri, December 15, 2023
Kelli and Nolan discuss their different perspectives on the effectiveness of DEI initiatives and the temperature in tech businesses right now. – Feedback is welcome - send a note to Kelli and Nolan on LI to let us know what you think. Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ – SPONSORS: Lattice | Continuum ✅ Discover HR software that drives performance with Lattice: https://www.lattice.com/hrheretics High performance and great culture should never be at odds; they’re better together. With Lattice People Management Platform, companies efficiently run people programs that create enviable cultures where employees want to do their best work. Serving 1000s of customers of all sizes. Learn why companies from Slack to the LA Dodgers choose Lattice. https://www.lattice.com/hrheretics ✅ Hire Fractional Executives with Continuum using this link: https://bit.ly/40hlRa9 Have you ever had a negative experience hiring executives? Continuum connects executives and senior operators to venture-backed tech companies for fractional and full-time roles. You can post any executive-level role to Continuum’s marketplace and search through our database of world-class, vetted leaders. There is no hidden cost, you only pay the person you hire. And you can cancel at any time. www.joincontinuum.com This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com
Thu, December 14, 2023
Cara Brennan Allamano is the Chief People Officer at Lattice and previously at Udemy, Pinterest, and Adobe. Nolan and Kelli talk to Cara about the intricacies of building relationships with CEOs, different career paths for people leadership, undergoing layoffs with dignity, and the importance of saying "no" when necessary for the health of the organization. HR Heretics is part of the Turpentine podcast network. Learn more: www.turpentine.co -- SPONSORS: Lattice | Continuum ✅ Discover HR software that drives performance with Lattice: https://www.lattice.com/hrheretics High performance and great culture should never be at odds; they’re better together. With Lattice People Management Platform, companies efficiently run people programs that create enviable cultures where employees want to do their best work. Serving 1000s of customers of all sizes. Learn why companies from Slack to the LA Dodgers choose Lattice. https://www.lattice.com/hrheretics ✅ Hire Fractional Executives with Continuum using this link: https://bit.ly/40hlRa9 Have you ever had a negative experience hiring executives? Continuum connects executives and senior operators to venture-backed tech companies for fractional and full-time roles. You can post any executive-level role to Continuum’s marketplace and search through our database of world-class, vetted leaders. There is no hidden cost, you only pay the person you hire. And you can cancel at any time. www.Joincontinuum.com – RECOMMENDED PODCAST: Check out Run The Numbers! Kelli and Nolan were guests on the most recent episode: a deep dive into FIRING CEOs and EXECS. This one's hilarious. Listen here, wherever you get your podcasts: https://link.chtbl.com/runthenumbers – KEEP UP WITH CARA, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Cara: https://www.linkedin.com/in/carabrennan/ Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ – TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Episode Preview (03:16) Being a people officer but having low tolerance for pain (05:40) On getting excited about helping other people become successful (06:55) The meta thing of careers according to Cara (10:58) How do you get to tha
Thu, December 07, 2023
Brett Queener is a partner at Bonfire Ventures, with a background extending to nearly every function as an operator at Salesforce, Smart Recruiters, and more. Brett is well-versed in the mechanics of early-stage companies and this conversation covers the death rate of startups, the point of board meetings, getting people to work outrageously hard for you, and more. Kelli and Nolan’s segment this week (54:00-01:09:30) discusses Jack Dorsey’s decision to eliminate PIPs and expands into a broader discussion of the right sized management layer, span of control, performance review systems and how businesses can change their approach towards feedback and evaluations HR Heretics is part of the Turpentine podcast network. Learn more: www.turpentine.co -- SPONSORS: Metaview | Continuum | Lattice ✅ Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Robinhood, Quora, and Replit say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself for free on your first 5 interviews: https://www.metaview.ai/1000 ✅ Hire Fractional Executives with Continuum using this link: https://bit.ly/40hlRa9 Have you ever had a negative experience hiring executives? Continuum connects executives and senior operators to venture-backed tech companies for fractional and full-time roles. You can post any executive-level role to Continuum’s marketplace and search through our database of world-class, vetted leaders. There is no hidden cost, you only pay the person you hire. And you can cancel at any time. Joincontinuum.com ✅ Discover HR software that drives performance with Lattice: https://www.lattice.com/hrheretics High performance and great culture should never be at odds; they’re better together. With Lattice People Management Platform, companies efficiently run people programs that create enviable cultures where employees want to do their best work. Serving 1000s of customers of all sizes. Learn why companies from Slack to the LA Dodgers choose Lattice. https://www.lattice.com/hrheretics – RECOMMENDED PODCAST: Check out Run The Numbers! Kelli and Nolan were guests on the most recent episode: a deep dive into FIRING CEOs and EXECS. This one's hilarious. Listen here, wherever you get your podcasts: <a href="https://link.chtbl.com/runthenumbers" class="linki
Thu, November 30, 2023
Melanie Naranjo is the VP, People at Ethena and an insightful writer at the forefront of HR thought leadership. In this episode, Melanie, Kelli and Nolan dig into the current sentiment in HR, why the bar is set lower than it should be, why you should abandon PIPs, instilling a culture of feedback among execs, and why EQ isn’t the most important skill to develop in a people leader. If you’re looking for HR software that drives performance, check out Lattice https://www.lattice.com/hrheretics – SPONSORS: Lattice | Continuum ✅ Discover HR software that drives performance with Lattice: https://www.lattice.com/hrheretics High performance and great culture should never be at odds; they’re better together. With Lattice People Management Platform, companies efficiently run people programs that create enviable cultures where employees want to do their best work. Serving 1000s of customers of all sizes. Learn why companies from Slack to the LA Dodgers choose Lattice. https://www.lattice.com/hrheretics ✅ Hire Fractional Executives with Continuum using this link: https://bit.ly/40hlRa9 Have you ever had a negative experience hiring executives? Continuum connects executives and senior operators to venture-backed tech companies for fractional and full-time roles. You can post any executive-level role to Continuum’s marketplace and search through our database of world-class, vetted leaders. There is no hidden cost, you only pay the person you hire. And you can cancel at any time. Joincontinuum.com – RECOMMENDED PODCAST: Check out Run The Numbers! Kelli and Nolan were guests on the most recent episode: a deep dive into FIRING CEOs and EXECS. This one's hilarious. Listen here, wherever you get your podcasts: https://link.chtbl.com/runthenumbers – KEEP UP WITH MELANIE, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Melanie: https://www.linkedin.com/in/melanie-naranjo/ Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ – LINKS: The Cost of Tolerating Underperformance: https://www.linkedin.
Tue, November 21, 2023
David Hanrahan is the Chief People Officer of Flare and a highly respected people leader. David joins Kelli and Nolan for an unfiltered discussion on pushing for high performance in your company, normalizing scorecards, and what qualities separates the best HR leaders. If you’re looking for HR software that drives performance, check out Lattice https://www.lattice.com/hrheretics – SPONSORS: Lattice | Continuum ✅ Discover HR software that drives performance with Lattice: https://www.lattice.com/hrheretics High performance and great culture should never be at odds; they’re better together. With Lattice People Management Platform, companies efficiently run people programs that create enviable cultures where employees want to do their best work. Serving 1000s of customers of all sizes. Learn why companies from Slack to the LA Dodgers choose Lattice. https://www.lattice.com/hrheretics ✅ Hire Fractional Executives with Continuum using this link: https://bit.ly/40hlRa9 Have you ever had a negative experience hiring executives? Continuum connects executives and senior operators to venture-backed tech companies for fractional and full-time roles. You can post any executive-level role to Continuum’s marketplace and search through our database of world-class, vetted leaders. There is no hidden cost, you only pay the person you hire. And you can cancel at any time. Joincontinuum.com – RECOMMENDED PODCAST: Every week investor and writer of the popular newsletter The Diff, Byrne Hobart, and co-host Erik Torenberg discuss today’s major inflection points in technology, business, and markets – and help listeners build a diversified portfolio of trends and ideas for the future. Subscribe to “The Riff” with Byrne Hobart and Erik Torenberg: https://link.chtbl.com/theriff – KEEP UP WITH DAVID, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN David: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidhanrahan/ Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ – TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro (03:00) On People leaders getting a little soft and being burned out (05:00) David 20+ years vs David 10+ years experience (07:35) The gap between what employer
Thu, November 16, 2023
Steve Cadigan scaled LinkedIn from 400 to 4000 people in 3.5 years, and is now an author and consultant on global talent strategy. He joins Kelli Dragovich and Nolan Church to discuss lessons from working with LinkedIn’s CEO during hyper scale, recruiting talent, going public, and debate the future of work. If you’re looking for HR software that drives performance, check out Lattice https://www.lattice.com/hrheretics After the interview, Nolan and Kelli discuss recent incidents of employees being fired for hate speech at work. – SPONSORS: Lattice | Continuum ✅ Discover HR software that drives performance with Lattice: https://www.lattice.com/hrheretics High performance and great culture should never be at odds; they’re better together. With Lattice People Management Platform, companies efficiently run people programs that create enviable cultures where employees want to do their best work. Serving 1000s of customers of all sizes. Learn why companies from Slack to the LA Dodgers choose Lattice. https://www.lattice.com/hrheretics ✅ Hire Fractional Executives with Continuum using this link: https://bit.ly/40hlRa9 Have you ever had a negative experience hiring executives? Continuum connects executives and senior operators to venture-backed tech companies for fractional and full-time roles. You can post any executive-level role to Continuum’s marketplace and search through our database of world-class, vetted leaders. There is no hidden cost, you only pay the person you hire. And you can cancel at any time. Joincontinuum.com – RECOMMENDED PODCAST: Every week investor and writer of the popular newsletter The Diff, Byrne Hobart, and co-host Erik Torenberg discuss today’s major inflection points in technology, business, and markets – and help listeners build a diversified portfolio of trends and ideas for the future. Subscribe to “The Riff” with Byrne Hobart and Erik Torenberg: https://link.chtbl.com/theriff – KEEP UP WITH STEVE NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Steve: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cadigan/ Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ – LINKS: Steve’s podcast: The Work Week After Hours
Thu, November 09, 2023
Molly Graham is a seasoned exec, builder, and widely-read writer in tech. She joins Kelli Dragovich and Nolan Church to discuss her lessons from working on different challenges (HR,Comms, GTM, COO) in hyper-scaling companies, career building, assembling strong leadership teams, and managing the rollercoaster emotions of zero-to-one startups. If you’re looking for HR software that drives performance, check out Lattice https://www.lattice.com/hrheretics After the interview, Nolan and Kelli discuss the uproar over whether to use LinkedIn's Open to Work badge, since Nolan was quoted in the press as being very critical of the feature and the signal it sends to hiring managers. – SPONSORS: Lattice | Continuum ✅ Discover HR software that drives performance with Lattice: https://www.lattice.com/hrheretics High performance and great culture should never be at odds; they’re better together. With Lattice People Management Platform, companies efficiently run people programs that create enviable cultures where employees want to do their best work. Serving 1000s of customers of all sizes. Learn why companies from Slack to the LA Dodgers choose Lattice. https://www.lattice.com/hrheretics ✅ Hire Fractional Executives with Continuum using this link: https://bit.ly/40hlRa9 Have you ever had a negative experience hiring executives? Continuum connects executives and senior operators to venture-backed tech companies for fractional and full-time roles. You can post any executive-level role to Continuum’s marketplace and search through our database of world-class, vetted leaders. There is no hidden cost, you only pay the person you hire. And you can cancel at any time. – RECOMMENDED PODCAST: Every week investor and writer of the popular newsletter The Diff, Byrne Hobart, and co-host Erik Torenberg discuss today’s major inflection points in technology, business, and markets – and help listeners build a diversified portfolio of trends and ideas for the future. Subscribe to “The Riff” with Byrne Hobart and Erik Torenberg: https://link.chtbl.com/theriff – KEEP UP WITH MOLLY, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Molly: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mograham/ Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/
Thu, November 02, 2023
Tomasz Tunguz is a General Partner at Theory Ventures and the writer of one of the best blog/newsletters in tech. Tom joins Kelli Dragovich and Nolan Church to discuss the relationship between boards, founders and People leaders, and how HR strategies interact with boards in key moments of a company’s history, including M&A. If you’re looking for HR software that drives performance, check out Lattice https://www.lattice.com/hrheretics After the interview, Nolan and Kelli discuss the dynamics of navigating politics at work in your companies. – SPONSORS: Lattice | Continuum ✅ Discover HR software that drives performance with Lattice: https://www.lattice.com/hrheretics High performance and great culture should never be at odds; they’re better together. With Lattice People Management Platform, companies efficiently run people programs that create enviable cultures where employees want to do their best work. Serving 1000s of customers of all sizes. Learn why companies from Slack to the LA Dodgers choose Lattice. https://www.lattice.com/hrheretics ✅ Hire Fractional Executives with Continuum: https://bit.ly/40hlRa9 Have you ever had a negative experience hiring executives? Continuum connects executives and senior operators to venture backed tech companies for fractional and full-time roles. You can post any executive-level role to Continuum’s marketplace and search through our database of world-class, vetted leaders. There is no hidden cost, you only pay the person you hire. And you can cancel at any time. – RECOMMENDED PODCAST: Every week investor and writer of the popular newsletter The Diff, Byrne Hobart, and co-host Erik Torenberg discuss today’s major inflection points in technology, business, and markets – and help listeners build a diversified portfolio of trends and ideas for the future. Subscribe to “The Riff” with Byrne Hobart and Erik Torenberg: https://link.chtbl.com/theriff – KEEP UP WITH TOMASZ, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Tomasz: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tomasztunguz/ Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ – LINKS: Tomasz Tunguz’ Blog: https://tomtunguz.com/ T
Thu, October 26, 2023
Colleen McCreary, a seasoned Chief People Officer (Zynga, Credit Karma, EA, Twilio) -turned-venture capitalist at Ribbit Capital, sits down with Kelli Dragovich and Nolan Church. This insider conversation covers tactical advice for navigating Mergers and Acquisitions (she’s been through multiple), layoffs, recruiting top talent, and transitioning from an HR leader into the world of the board room. Before the interview, Nolan and Kelli also discuss the recent negative press for Carta's CEO Henry Ward, and offer listeners a behind the scenes understanding of executive departures and settlement packages. If you’re looking for HR software that drives performance, check out Lattice https://www.lattice.com/hrheretics – SPONSORS: Lattice | Continuum ✅ Discover HR software that drives performance with Lattice: https://www.lattice.com/hrheretics High performance and great culture should never be at odds; they’re better together. With Lattice People Management Platform, companies efficiently run people programs that create enviable cultures where employees want to do their best work. Serving 1000s of customers of all sizes. Learn why companies from Slack to the LA Dodgers choose Lattice. https://www.lattice.com/hrheretics ✅ Hire Fractional Executives with Continuum: HR Heretics listeners get 15% off of their first month using this link ( https://bit.ly/40hlRa9 ) Have you ever had a negative experience hiring executives? Continuum connects executives and senior operators to venture backed tech companies for fractional and full-time roles. You can post any executive-level role to Continuum’s marketplace and search through our database of world-class, vetted leaders. There is no hidden cost, you only pay the person you hire. And you can cancel at any time. HR Heretics listeners get 15% off – RECOMMENDED PODCAST: Every week investor and writer of the popular newsletter The Diff, Byrne Hobart, and co-host Erik Torenberg discuss today’s major inflection points in technology, business, and markets – and help listeners build a diversified portfolio of trends and ideas for the future. Subscribe to “The Riff” with Byrne Hobart and Erik Torenberg: https://link.chtbl.com/theriff – KEEP UP WITH COLLEEN, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Colleen: https://www.linkedin.com/in/colleenmccrearychiefpplofficer/ Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/n
Thu, October 19, 2023
On the inaugural episode of HR Heretics, author and former Chief Talent Officer of Netflix Patty McCord joins co-hosts Kelli Dragovich and Nolan Church for a candid interview to talk through how to innovate from the HR role, buck best practices, and how to build a high performing company. If you’re looking for HR software that drives performance, check out Lattice www.lattice.com/hrheretics – Sponsors: Lattice | Continuum ✅ Discover HR software that drives performance with Lattice: www.lattice.com/hrheretics High performance and great culture should never be at odds; they’re better together. With Lattice People Management Platform, companies efficiently run people programs that create enviable cultures where employees want to do their best work. Serving 1000s of customers of all sizes. Learn why companies from Slack to the LA Dodgers choose Lattice. www.lattice.com/hrheretics ✅ Hire Fractional Executives with Continuum: HR Heretics listeners get 15% off of their first month using this link: https://bit.ly/40hlRa9 Have you ever had a negative experience hiring executives? Continuum connects executives and senior operators to venture backed tech companies for fractional and full-time roles. You can post any executive-level role to Continuum’s marketplace and search through our database of world-class, vetted leaders. There is no hidden cost, you only pay the person you hire. And you can cancel at any time. – RECOMMENDED PODCAST: Every week investor and writer of the popular newsletter The Diff, Byrne Hobart, and co-host Erik Torenberg discuss today’s major inflection points in technology, business, and markets – and help listeners build a diversified portfolio of trends and ideas for the future. Subscribe to “The Riff” with Byrne Hobart and Erik Torenberg: https://link.chtbl.com/theriff – KEEP UP WITH PATTY, KELLI, & NOLAN ON LINKEDIN Patty: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pattymccord/ Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ – LINKS: Netflix Culture Deck- https://www.slideshare.net/reed2001/culture-1798664 Powerful by Patty McCord- <a href="https://pattymccord.com
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