2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair Enns
Conversations on the art of creative entrepreneurship with David C. Baker and Blair Enns
Wed, April 23, 2025
The Power of a Metaphor
The more unexpected the metaphor, the more information it carries. Blair has four less-obvious metaphors to give you access to entire playbooks in just four words when selling your expertise. LINKS "The Power of a Metaphor" written by Blair Enns for winwithoutpitching.com
Wed, April 09, 2025
Should You Entertain That Acquisition Offer?
Ignoring any unexpected offers to buy your business that might come your way is not in your best interest. But neither is dating all opportunities in desperation. David has four things principals should consider, whether or not you are actively looking to sell your firm. Links “Should You Entertain That Offer?” by David C. Baker for punctuation.com 2Bobs London Meet-up on Thursday 8 May, 2025 at 2pm
Wed, March 26, 2025
When Your Clients Talk to Each Other
Your clients are far more likely to talk to each other when you have vertical positioning. Blair has observed both good and bad things arising from this. Links “How to Ask for Referrals” 2Bobs episode
Wed, March 12, 2025
Facing an Existential Crisis?
As we are hearing about more firms that are closing during these challenging times, David offers some guidance to help cut through the confusion when our worst fears in our business become reality. Links "Facing an Existential Crisis" article by David for punctuation.com Rory Sutherland's LinkedIn post David's LinkedIn post
Wed, February 26, 2025
Who Should Set Prices?
As Blair continues to encourage expert practice owners to price the client and not the service, he and David discuss the pros and cons of four levels of pricing authority they should be thinking about within their firm, instead of just assuming pricing responsibility automatically defaults to a specific role or job title. Links “Who Should Set Prices In Your Firm?” written by Blair Enns for WinWithoutPitching.com
Wed, February 12, 2025
10 Reasons a Buyer Might Want Your Firm
David thinks principals should build their firms as if they were going to sell it while Blair’s advice is to run it as if you’ll never sell it. Being aware of options as your firm matures can give you the leverage you might need in negotiations. Links “Ten Reasons Firms Are Bought” by David C. Baker for punctuation.com
Wed, January 29, 2025
To Standardize or Customize
Through the process of writing his latest book, Blair's thinking has evolved on whether or not firms should resist the urge to productize their services as they work to creatively meet the unique needs of each client.
Wed, January 15, 2025
Don't Bother Eating Your Veggies
In Blair's experience, the most common reason a lead generation plan doesn’t get executed is it doesn’t recognize and leverage the strengths or motivations of the individuals executing. LINKS "The Best Lead Generation Plan" article by Blair Enns for WinWithoutPitching.com "The Rungs You Can Reach on the Ladder of Lead Generation" 2Bobs episode
Wed, January 01, 2025
Adapting Hiring Strategies Over Time
David describes the differences in what kind of people principals should hire during the early stage of their creative firm’s development when it’s all about “what we can afford,” the middle stage when it’s about “what we need,” and then the later days of an agency when it’s about “what we can learn.” LINKS “How Your Hiring Strategies Change” by David C. Baker for punctuation.com “The Problem of Standards” by David Maister
Wed, December 18, 2024
The Barbell of Pricing Risk
Blair borrows a concept from finance and fitness to help creative agencies find the balance between low risk and high risk pricing strategies.
Wed, December 04, 2024
Selling Your Professional Services Firm
Blair interviews David about his new book, Selling Your Professional Services Firm: A Primer . LINKS Buy a copy of David's new book from him directly. Buy David's new book and audiobook on Amazon.
Wed, November 20, 2024
Questions, Not Answers
Blair interviews David on his recent article about the idea that expertise does involve supplying answers, eventually, but mainly expertise is about asking the right questions, first, and then offering a few answers after the truth surfaces. Links “Expertise Is Mainly About Asking Great Questions” by David C. Baker on Punctuation.com
Wed, November 06, 2024
Assume an Advantaged Player
Blair shares how to determine whether or not we are the advantaged player the “polite battle for control” within the game of sales, and how we can get the odds of winning the sale to be more in our favor. Links “Assume an Advantaged Player” article by Blair Enns on WinWithoutPitching.com
Wed, October 23, 2024
The Four Conversations: A New Model for Selling Expertise
David interviews Blair about his new book , which lays out his proven framework B2B service providers can use to increase closing ratios and average proposal values. Links Order The Four Conversations: A New Model for Selling Expertise by Blair Enns
Wed, October 09, 2024
200th Episode Special
Blair and David reminisce about their podcasting journey since Blair first pitched the 2Bobs idea to David back in 2016, sharing what they've learned along the way, and what they might like to try with the podcast in the future.
Wed, September 25, 2024
How Account Managers Deliver Strategy
David unpacks six principles that can help creative firms benefit from delivering strategic guidance through their account managers. LINKS "Account Managers and Strategy" by David C. Baker at punctuation.com
Wed, September 11, 2024
How to Avoid Commodifying Your Offering
Blair sees four common behaviors when business owners are looking to get deals moving in times of economic decline, stagnation, or uncertainty that end up doing long term harm to their positioning and pricing. LINKS "Four Ways to Commodify Your Offering" by Blair Enns on WinWithoutPitching.com "Phase Your Client Engagements" 2Bobs episode
Wed, August 28, 2024
Are Email Newsletter Even Viable Anymore?
Every few years we’re told that we need to move on from using email newsletters as a part of our marketing platform. And David says that advice has always been wrong. Links David’s article on Punctuation.com (subscribe to his newsletter at the bottom of the page) “Email is the Most Consistent, Reliable Marketing Channel on the Web and I Can Prove It” by Rand Fishkin
Wed, August 14, 2024
How to Make Horizontal Positioning Work
David provides some clear examples of what is required for a firm to be successful at offering one service for many different verticals. Links “Strengthening a Weak Horizontal Positioning” by David C. Baker on punctuation.com
Wed, July 31, 2024
Are You Fishing in the Right Pond?
Given these uncertain economic times we are in right now, Blair is asking if some creative firms might need to rethink the market they serve, looking at whether their positioning might be too broad, too narrow, or just wrong. LINKS "The Target Is Not the Market" by Blair Enns on winwithoutpitching.com
Wed, July 17, 2024
Leading in a Chaotic World
David shares his decision-making framework that will help agency principals make better decisions during chaotic times like these. LINKS “Leading in a Chaotic World” article by David C. Baker on Punctuation.com
Wed, July 03, 2024
Creating a Premium Pricing Culture
Pricing is a prison cell of our own making. And it’s cultural. Blair has come up with a series of prompts as a creative exercise to help us all move into a realm of higher pricing. Links “Creating a Culture of Premium Pricing” by Blair Enns at WinWithoutPitching.com “Have we Hit Peak Strategy?” “Be the Client You Want to See in the World”
Wed, June 19, 2024
Building a Scalable Sales Strategy
David wants agency principals to develop new business plans which delivers more new leads with less labor so their organizations can have more controllable growth, as well as increasing their likelihood for a successful exit when that time comes. Links 2Bobs episode: “The Rungs You Can Reach on the Ladder of Lead Generation” NY Times article: “How a Self-Published Book Broke ‘All the Rules’ and Became a Best Seller”
Wed, June 05, 2024
Have We Hit Peak Strategy?
Blair thinks too many design firms and other service providers are trying too hard to raise prices by presenting themselves as more “strategic.” Both he and David see these agencies losing more and more work to competitors moving to off-shore teams and AI centered services. Links Blair’s “What Is Strategy?” episode of the Ditching Hourly podcast with Jonathan Stark
Wed, May 22, 2024
What Tech Bros Get Right...and Wrong
David definitely doesn’t want anyone to be like tech bros, but he has recognized a few things creative agencies might be able to learn from them.
Wed, May 08, 2024
Turning Your Delivery Team Into a Sales Team
Blair has five steps creative agency leaders can take to turn their account managers, project managers, developers, engineers, and advisors into a source of instant scale to their sales efforts. LINKS “ Turning Your Delivery Team Into a Sales Team ” article by Blair on WinWithoutPitching.com
Wed, April 24, 2024
Advising Clients Ethically
Whether you call yourself an advisor or consultant (or not), David has seven core ethical principles that should govern advisory work. LINKS "Advising Clients Ethically" article on Punctuation.com
Wed, April 10, 2024
Just Stop Talking
The fact that sales people tend to talk too much is nothing new, but Blair has observed in recent client work just how profound of an effect this pervasive problem has on sales outcomes. Links “How and When to Talk About Your Firm” “Replacing Presentations With Conversations”
Wed, March 27, 2024
Working With a Maverick
When it comes to qualifications for ideal clients, David doesn’t hear anyone talking about how agencies can benefit when the person across the table is someone who presses boundaries and ethically skirts the rules within their own organization.
Wed, March 13, 2024
The Dichotomy of the Expert Salesperson
As Blair is finishing his new book that drops later this year, he comes to the realization that pretty much everything he does comes down to the fundamental issue that experts think they need to show up as a different person during the sale: pitching, persuading, and convincing instead of as the leader their prospective clients need them to be. LINKS "The Dichotomy of the Expert Salesperson" article by Blair Enns at WinWithoutPitching.com "Ditch the (Sales) Script"
Wed, February 28, 2024
Maximizing Pro Bono Opportunities
While discussing eight ways creative firms can do pro bono work better based on an article David wrote recently, both he and Blair discover a couple new profound insights together. LINKS “Maximizing Your Pro-Bono Contributions” by David C. Baker at Punctuation.com Left-handed Mango Chutney
Wed, February 14, 2024
Attending the Way
Blair recognizes how a Confucius quote is really bad business advice, but is still moved by how a highly principled creative firm in New Zealand continues to thrive by prioritizing their creative practices and client fit over new business strategy. LINKS "Attending the Way" article by Blair on WinWithoutPitching.com AltGroup.net
Wed, January 31, 2024
A 7-part Theory of Principal Compensation
David frequently gets hired to help resolve issues at firms between multiple principles when it comes to who does what and how much each should get paid, so he’s come up with a 7-point framework he can use in each unique scenario.
Wed, January 17, 2024
The Time Value of Knowledge
David interviews Blair about his recent article in which he takes a lesson from investing with compound interest to understand the increasing returns we can receive from our relentless pursuit of knowledge over time. Links “The Time Value of Knowledge” article on WinWithoutPitching.com
Wed, January 03, 2024
Revisiting Remote Work
David looks at the current data and weighs all the pros and cons of continuing to have staff who work from home in our post-pandemic economy, which makes Blair wonder if he would even survive if he was starting out in his profession today. Links “The Pros/Cons of Remote Work”
Wed, December 20, 2023
Ditch the (Sales) Script
Blair sees too many creative firms talking at prospective clients using sales scripts instead of having a series of wide ranging conversations on their unique issues and objectives that set the tone for the potential long-term engagement. Links “Ten Set Pieces” “Mastering the Value Conversation”
Wed, December 06, 2023
Constrained by Artificial Boundaries
Blair’s latest obsession is bounded rationality, in which he sees too many creative firms failing to make “rational” decisions because they choose to bind their businesses with outdated and overly-constraining ideals like the 80/20 principle. Links “The Great Convergence is Upon Us” by Blair Enns for Win Without Pitching Award-winning “Unapologetically Human” ad campaign by Kruger and BHLA Productize: The Ultimate Guide to Turning Professional Services to Scalable Products by Eisha Tierney Armstrong
Wed, November 22, 2023
A Theory of Leisure
David shares his thoughts on some bad advice he hears involving the focus on pursuing personal passions in business.
Wed, November 08, 2023
The Death Throes of the Pitch
Blair weighs in on this year's Forrester report, which shows the ridiculous amount of money agencies have been wasting on pitches. LINKS "Are These the Last Days of the Pitch?" by Blair Enns for Win Without Pitching "A New Forrester Report Urges Brands and Agencies to 'Ditch the Pitch'" by Olivia Morley for AdWeek published on 4 A's
Wed, October 25, 2023
How Much Should You Spend on Your Own Marketing?
David addresses another frequently asked question, looking at what creative firms should budget in terms of both money and time for their website, SaaS/automation, PR, content creation, and social media.
Wed, October 11, 2023
The Conflicting Ethics of Selling and Negotiating
Blair identifies the differences between the ethics of selling expertise and the three schools of bargaining ethics, and what happens when we don’t adapt our bargaining approach to match our opponents in the game of negotiation. Links “ The Conflicting Ethics of Selling & Negotiating ” article by Blair Enns on WinWithoutPitching.com
Wed, September 27, 2023
Doing Employee Orientation Right
In an era of rapid turnover and remote working arrangements, developing a structured onboarding process for new staff is more important than ever. David has a checklist to help agencies get their new employees up to speed as quickly as possible.
Wed, September 13, 2023
The War on Payment Terms
Blair sees non-standard payment terms as a two-sided issue, where agencies should be creatively leveraging terms more to their own benefit as opposed to just defending themselves against procurement departments who impose onerous terms. LINKS "Payment Terms, On Your Terms"
Wed, August 30, 2023
What Your Team Wants From You
While analyzing data from his Total Business Reset surveys, David has noticed five significant trends which principals should be aware of to run their firms more effectively, as well as one thing your team wishes you’d stop doing.
Wed, August 16, 2023
How to Ask for Referrals
As a follow-up to the discussion in the previous episode, Blair has some criteria for firms that would beneift from prioritizing and codifying an effective referral strategy as a way to gain new business. LINKS “The Best Referral Machine I Have Ever Seen”
Wed, August 02, 2023
How to Make Referrals
In part one of a two-part discussion about developing a business referral strategy, Blair is surprised to hear that David wants to cover how and why we can get better at giving away business, before talking about how to get more referrals.
Wed, July 19, 2023
Do You Even Need New Business People?
Blair runs through one of his constraint driven exercises with David by having us imagine running our business with nobody dedicated to the various functions under the banner of new business.
Wed, July 05, 2023
Predictive Traits of Successful Owners
David has observed six common characteristics of agency principals that can affect whether or not their business succeeds.
Wed, June 21, 2023
Six Barriers to New Business Success
Even after understanding and trying to adopt the philosophies from Win Without Pitching , Blair sees many creative firms struggling to increase profit because of these six obstacles involving their people and processes. Links Mastering the Value Conversation The Complexities of Commission Culture Innoficiency in Your Agency The Enemy Within The Complex Battle for Margin Debriefing After a New Business Call Is Your Firm Addicted to New Business? Who’s Going to Own This?
Wed, June 07, 2023
Ten Questions I Want to Ask You
This is your intervention and David has some tough questions about the important decisions you should be making to manage and grow your creative firm. LINKS "The Four Types of Employees at Your Firm"
Wed, May 24, 2023
Qualities of the World’s Best Project Managers
David feels like project managers get a bad rap and has tried to raise their profile within creative firms. So he’s gathered a list of traits from the best project managers he’s met in the hundreds of agencies he’s worked with over the years. Links “Understanding Account People”
Wed, May 10, 2023
CRM and the Mistakes to Avoid
A lot has changed since Blair wrote his article about seven mistakes he sees creative firms make with CRM years ago, and David wants to know why Excel isn’t a good tool for managing sales leads.
Wed, April 26, 2023
Why We Suck at Negotiating
Blair has six challenges creative agencies face when it comes to being compensated for the actual value they generate for their clients.
Wed, April 12, 2023
Developing a Client Conflict Strategy
David addresses how vertically positioned agencies can manage a client roster containing multiple companies who are competitors with each other.
Wed, March 29, 2023
Inbound, Outbound, and In Between
Blair has been getting too much spam lately and sees an opportunity with warm leads that lies between inbound and outbound marketing which is not being mined well among the creative firms. Links “Inbound, Outbound & In Between” article on WinWithoutPitching.com
Wed, March 15, 2023
The Perils of "Good/Better/Best" Pricing
Blair wants sales people to stop ranking proposal options in a way that assigns judgement for prospective clients without considering the many tradeoffs that need to be considered. Read the episode notes and transcript at http://2bobs.com/podcast/the-perils-of-good-better-best-pricing
Wed, March 01, 2023
Reverse Trojan Horse Syndrome
Blair is confused by David’s mixed metaphors about creative agencies being able to sell strategy services up front, instead of entering through the implementation door with new clients and then trying to demonstrate how much more your firm can provide.
Wed, February 15, 2023
Is Your Firm Addicted to New Business?
Blair sees some creative firms as “black holes” where accounts go in and seemingly never come out, and others as “new business development machines,” consistently generating half of their revenue from new clients every year. Links “Is Your Firm Addicted to New Business?” “Churn, Baby, Churn”
Wed, February 01, 2023
Secret Tradecraft of Elite Advisors
David has a brand new book, Secret Tradecraft of Elite Advisors: Covert Techniques for a Remarkable Practice . In it he reveals exactly how he manages engagements with his clients, and he’s nervous about how it will be received. Links Secret Tradecraft of Elite Advisors: Covert Techniques for a Remarkable Practice The Business of Expertise: How Entrepreneurial Experts Convert Insight to Impact + Wealth Read the transcrtipt and episode notes at http://2bobs.com/podcast/secret-tradecraft-of-elite-advisors
Wed, January 18, 2023
Innoficiency in Your Agency
Blair has talked many times on the podcast about how innovation and efficiency are mutually opposable goals, and after presenting his first keynote on the "Innoficiency Principle" goes deeper into this idea with David. Links “The Innoficiency Problem” “The Marketing Procurement Problem” The Google Cemetery “The Enemy Within” “The Complex Battle for Margin” “Five Levels of Pricing Success”
Wed, January 04, 2023
Churn, Baby, Churn
David gets flack for his contrary perspective on how agencies shouldn’t necessarily aim for long-term client relationships. So he clarifies how he’s seen the the fear of both client and employee churn hold firms back. LINKS "Reboot Your Culture Through New Business" "Your Firm Should Be A Team—Not A Family" "The Problem of Standards" by David Maister Read the transcript and episode notes at http://2bobs.com/podcast/churn-baby-churn
Wed, December 21, 2022
Reboot Your Culture Through New Business
Blair frequently tells his clients, “You reinvent the firm one new client at a time.” So looking ahead to the new year, he has five areas where principals can be looking to upgrade their agency’s culture through the next new client. Links Tim Williams, The Unscalable Business Model Jim de Zoete, Don't Pitch Your Mental Health Maintaining the Expert Position...After the Sale The Agency Gatekeeper Slapping Down Your Childlike Glee Everything Can Change in One Conversation The Enemy Within Mastering the Value Conversation Selling in One Lesson The Power of Options
Wed, December 07, 2022
Who Should Be Promoted?
Have your firm's managers been promoted based on technical proficiency and status, or was it because of their self-awareness and critical thinking? David shares why he sees so many poor managers in the creative firms he's worked with, and then lists what he looks for in great team leaders. Read the episode notes and transcript at http://2bobs.com/podcast/who-should-be-promoted
Wed, November 23, 2022
Maintaining the Expert Position...After the Sale
Without turning everything into a power play, David provides seven sources of leverage that can help agencies maintain the leadership role in client engagements long term. Read the epiosde notes and transcript at http://2bobs.com/podcast/maintaining-the-expert-position-after-the-sale
Wed, November 09, 2022
When Your Engagement Level Drops
David has 16 things for principals to try when they feel the need to do something different from running their firm. Links Play the Game of Constraints Read the epsisode notes and transcript at http://2bobs.com/podcast/when-your-engagement-level-drops
Wed, October 26, 2022
The Marketing Procurement Problem
Blair talks about his new podcast with Leah Power, 20% - The Marketing Procurement Podcast , in which they are speaking with marketing, procurement, and agency professionals about how to "procure" creativity without killing it. Read the episode notes and transcript at http://2bobs.com/podcast/the-marketing-procurement-problem
Wed, October 12, 2022
The Agency Gatekeeper
Blair recommends five things firms need to be effective at qualifying new business opportunities in order to prevent the over-allocation of resources against early-stage buyers. Links Slapping Down Your Childlike Glee Mastering the Value Conversation Models Everywhere Critical Questions Your New Business Person Should Be Able to Answer How and When to Talk About Your Firm Read the episode notes and transcript at http://2bobs.com/podcast/the-agency-gatekeeper
Wed, September 28, 2022
Prostitutes and Scope Creep
David thinks creative firms can learn something from sex workers about how to run their business. Read the transcript and episode notes at http://2bobs.com/podcast/prostitutes-and-scope-creep
Wed, September 14, 2022
How Would You Prepare for a Downturn?
David is not an economist so he doesn’t have any idea if an economic downturn is imminent, but the signs aren’t great. If you decide that a downturn is around the corner, what would you do right now? Read the transcript and episode notes at http://2bobs.com/podcast/how-would-you-prepare-for-a-downturn
Wed, August 31, 2022
Selling Should Be Fun or You Aren't Doing It Right
Blair had fun on a week of sales calls and came up with four reasons why he thinks most people can learn to have fun selling like he did. Read the episode notes and transcript at http://2bobs.com/podcast/selling-should-be-fun-or-you-arent-doing-it-right Links “Are We Having Fun Yet?” “This Should Be Fun” “Coaches Corner: Now This Is Fun”
Wed, August 17, 2022
Models Everywhere
Blair and David go into detail about what a model is for a creative firm and how they can be useful in closing new business and improving profitability. Read the transcript and episode notes at http://2bobs.com/podcast/models-everywhere
Wed, August 03, 2022
How Categories and Positioning Options Might Change
David and Blair follow up their previous discussion about how marketing firms have evolved, going deeper into how different service categories and positioning might look in the near future. Read this episode's transcript and get links to what was discussed at http://2bobs.com/podcast/how-categories-andpositioning-options-might-change
Wed, July 20, 2022
The Evolution of a Marketing Firm
Creative or marketing firms look a lot different today than they did 20 years ago. What happened to the ad agencies and design firms? And what trends are Blair and David seeing as businesses and technology continue to evolve? Read the transcript and listen to more episodes at http://2bobs.com/podcast/the-evolution-of-a-marketing-firm
Wed, July 06, 2022
Shortcomings of the EBITDA Multiplier
David keeps getting asked: “what multiple are you seeing these days?” As if there’s some simple, magic answer that’ll lead to a company’s value. EBITDA is a great tool…but an incomplete one. Read the transcript and episode notes at http://2bobs.com/podcast/shortcomings-of-the-ebitda-multiplier
Wed, June 22, 2022
The Emotional Journey of Buying and Selling
When someone makes Prospect Theory generalizations—saying that buyers either over-weight gains or over-weight losses—Blair wants us to remember that both are true at different times during the sales process, and we need to adjust accordingly at the right times to close the sale. Read the transcript and episode notes at http://2bobs.com/podcast/the-emotional-journey-of-buying-and-selling
Wed, June 08, 2022
Hard Lines, Soft Lines
Inspired by some observations of what sometimes happens to people on the journey from vendor to expert, Blair sees some newbie Win Without Pitching devotees going too far–power tripping. Read the episode notes and transcript at http://2bobs.com/podcast/hard-lines-soft-lines
Wed, May 25, 2022
Designing Your Service Offerings
Does your list of service offerings look like a Cheesecake Factory menu? David identifies five hallmarks of poor service design along with five principles of effective service offering design. Read the transcript and episode notes at http://2bobs.com/podcast/designing-your-service-offerings
Wed, May 11, 2022
Secrets Behind the Killer Website
In a follow-up to the popular “Secrets Behind the Killer Proposal” episode, David unloads everything firms can do to make sure their website is locked and loaded for winning over new clients (wink wink).
Wed, April 27, 2022
Why All My Content Is Ungated
David has seven reasons for removing all barriers on his website for readers and prospects to access what he writes - but admits that it may not be for everyone. Read the show notes and transcript at http://2bobs.com/podcast/why-all-my-content-is-ungated
Wed, April 13, 2022
Selling to Different Buyer Types
Blair details each buyer type (Convenience, Relationship, Price, Value, and Poker Player), and demonstrates how your proposal should do the negotiating work for you regardless of which type of buyer you’re selling to. Read the show notes and transcript at http://2bobs.com/podcast/selling-to-different-buyer-types
Wed, March 30, 2022
The Power of Process
Blair discusses what they mean by having a process, how to develop it, what to avoid, and how your process at its highest level can be turned into valuable IP. Get the episode notes and transcript at http://2bobs.com/podcast/the-power-of-process
Wed, March 16, 2022
What Would YOUR Employee Review Look Like?
Would you fire yourself based on the firm's results? Fortunately, David cannot fire you. Unfortunately, David cannot fire you.
Wed, March 02, 2022
Secrets Behind the Killer Proposal
WARNING: If you only listen to only one episode of 2Bobs it should NOT be this one. In this send up of the ridiculous things people put in their proposals David and Blair give exactly the WRONG advice, hoping you get the joke.
Wed, February 16, 2022
Six Hidden Benefits of Client Concentration
Every firm will face the possibility of a client concentration challenge, and every client should probably say “yes” to that opportunity in spite of the warnings going off in their heads.
Wed, February 02, 2022
Everything Can Change in One Conversation
Blair identifies six variables that can change the trajectory of the sale conversation with your prospective client.
Wed, January 19, 2022
Languishing
The most-read New York Times story of 2021 was about the dominant emotion many of us felt. Blair and David just hit record for this episode, without any plan for this conversation about the pandemic and how they feel about the new year.
Wed, January 05, 2022
Your Job Is the Future—Theirs Is to Keep You Honest in the Present
Blair has David expand on his recent article titled " You’re A Dictatorship That Gathers Individual Democracies—Good For You. "
Wed, December 15, 2021
Sales Clichés and the Damage Done
Blair tears down seven common sales advice statements that B2B creative firms should actually avoid following in their new business engagements. See the episode notes, links, and transcript
Wed, December 01, 2021
Ten Set Pieces
Blair provides some modeling language in a sales context. While using scripts for a sales conversation is not advised, there are some “set piece” phrases that are handy to have at the ready.
Wed, November 17, 2021
Collecting From Deadbeat Clients
If you ever need to go to war over not being paid, David has some bombs you can lob over your enemy’s front lines.
Wed, November 03, 2021
Firing a Client
Blair interviews David on why dropping a client is sometimes necessary and how to best approach letting them go.
Wed, October 20, 2021
Attribution Errors
Where did the new client come from? Who gets credit? Should the new business person be involved in growing existing accounts? How should they, and/or the account people be compensated? Blair addresses all of these sales attribution questions.
Wed, October 06, 2021
How to Write That Book
You don’t need a degree or license or permission to write a book. David and Blair share the steps they took and what they have learned from the writing process.
Wed, September 22, 2021
Should You Write That Book?
If you think you might have a book in you but aren't sure writing and publishing your own book as an entrepreneur is worth the effort, this episode is for you.
Wed, September 08, 2021
Are You Ready for a Minority Partner?
David has eight questions he wants agency principals to ask themselves before hiring him to help add a new partner.
Wed, August 25, 2021
Approaching Normal
In this follow-up to their July 2020 discussion, “Four Regrets You’re About to Have,” David interrogates Blair on the extent to which he is a valuable and accurate predictor of what is happening in the marketplace.
Wed, August 11, 2021
Talking About Mental Health
Blair interviews David on his recent article in which he was very open and honest about his struggles with depression and anxiety. LINKS "I Struggle With Mental Health. Maybe You Do Too." mentally-healthy.org Mentally Healthy 2020 Results
Wed, July 28, 2021
Orbiting the Giant Hairball
For the last time—ever—David and Blair discuss client-side marketing departments, their struggle to be entrepreneurial and what we can learn from them.
Wed, July 14, 2021
Five Levels of Pricing Success
Blair combines a few of the deeper topics he and David have already covered to provide a larger view of the overall pricing journey he recommends creative firms take.
Wed, June 30, 2021
Your Four Advantages Over an In-House Department
In-house creative departments aren't going anywhere, so David wants agencies to be mindful of the unique value they bring to the projects for which their clients still need them.
Wed, June 16, 2021
A Ten Year Retrospective on the Manifesto
David asks Blair some awkward questions to get inside his head about his successful book, The Win Without Pitching Manifesto .
Wed, June 02, 2021
What an Acquirer Will - and Will Not - Care About
Most of us haven’t sold one firm that we’ve owned, and those principals who have formerly sold their firm aren’t always...ahem...telling the truth.
Wed, May 19, 2021
You Contain Multitudes
In a nod to the Walt Whitman line, Blair believes successful sales people - as well as agency principals - often need to present themselves as different personalities in different situations. And David believes sales trainers are actually therapists.
Wed, May 05, 2021
The Challenges of Growing Too Quickly
As we’ve seen independent creative marketing and digital firms experience rapid growth over this past year, David offers five factors that principals should consider in order to avoid growing for the wrong reasons and/or mismanaging that growth.
Wed, April 21, 2021
The Tao of No
Having a problem with either hearing or saying “no” can lead to problems for your business. Blair has 12 statements about the word “no” that can help.
Wed, April 07, 2021
What a Normal Person Thinks of Your Creative Firm
When people from other industries learn about what goes on inside your firm, are they awe-struck in a good or bad way? Blair and David come up with a list of things that are unique to the creative firm biz and how they’ve seen outsiders react to them.
Wed, March 24, 2021
Communication Components in Your Sales Toolbox
Blair shares an overview of all the communication tools creative firms should be using throughout the sales process.
Wed, March 10, 2021
Performance Bands
David and Blair discuss what the four performance bands are, eleven critical factors that keep firms stuck at the lower performance bands, and what firms can do to move into a higher band.
Wed, February 24, 2021
Creative Bullshit Bingo
David is in a cynical mood and takes turns with Blair sharing clichés they hear their clients use to describe their business.
Wed, February 10, 2021
Is "Agency" Still the Right Word?
Blair stops to think about what "agency" actually means, and if it's the right term to describe firms in the creative services space.
Wed, January 27, 2021
Let's Talk About Money
David lists eight truths about money that he's identified in his efforts to help entrepreneurs make better business decisions.
Wed, January 13, 2021
The Enemy Within
Blair addresses the internal struggle for margin that happens in many firms between delivery teams and business development teams due to their lack of distinction between cost and price.
Wed, December 30, 2020
Holding Opposite Perspectives in a Healthy Tension
David wants entrepreneurs to live with tension in various aspects of their business, using it to their advantage in making important decisions instead of just worrying about resolving the tension itself.
Wed, December 16, 2020
Slapping Down Your Childlike Glee
Blair offers some ways to help prevent over-excited new business people and principals from giving away the shop and appearing unprofessional.
Wed, December 02, 2020
Myth of "I Just Need More Opportunities to Get in Front of Prospects"
David draws a picture for Blair about the implications of this statement he hears almost all of his clients and prospects say about being able to close new business.
Wed, November 18, 2020
Big Clients Vs Small Clients
Blair shares the tradeoffs creative firms have to deal with when pursuing firms of a particular size, and David gets Blair riled up again about procurement.
Wed, November 04, 2020
The Great Migration
As agencies are trading their big city offices for working at home during the pandemic, Blair wants to know if David thinks he should get into real estate.
Wed, October 21, 2020
Foibles of an Executive Leadership Team
David thinks firms have too many meetings and offers some solutions, and Blair pushes back.
Wed, October 07, 2020
Transcending Timesheets
David torches Blair's highfalutin notions of timekeeping and offers four instances when timekeeping can actually be used without polluting your pricing.
Wed, September 23, 2020
How Our Deepest Fears Shape Our Approach to Business
David articulates five fears that tend to shape management style and impact decisions principals make for their firms.
Wed, September 09, 2020
Objections to Specialization
In part two of their specialization conversation, David and Blair address six arguments they have heard from certain clients who toyed with the idea of broader positioning for their firms.
Wed, August 26, 2020
Do Generalists Really Triumph Over Specialists?
David and Blair have experienced a backlash against experts, expertise, and specialization thanks to David Epstein's book, and they disagree on whether or not it's worth reading.
Wed, August 12, 2020
The Rungs You Can Reach on the Ladder of Lead Generation
Blair and David discuss three tiers of inbound and outbound marketing that firms should be using for new business development.
Wed, July 29, 2020
The Journey From Generalist to Specialist
David and Blair address a listener request to go over the challenges that principals often go through once they decide to reposition their firm.
Wed, July 15, 2020
How and When to Talk About Your Firm
Blair wonders if he's made an error in his efforts to prevent agencies from going into presentation mode during the sales process.
Wed, July 01, 2020
Four Regrets You're About to Have
Blair predicts when we are through the COVID-19 pandemic and business is approaching normal (whatever that means), agency principals will look back with some regrets about the things they did not do, rather than the things they did. LINKS "Four Regrets You’re About to Have" by Blair Enns "Play the Game of Constraints" by Blair Enns
Wed, June 17, 2020
When to Shut Up and Listen and When to Speak Up
Blair and David, as two white business leaders, try talking about the traumatic and emotional yet very necessary changes happening now to end systemic racism. As they listen and allow space for the voices of diversity that need to be heard, they also struggle with when to speak up as examples, owning up to their mistakes which will hopefully help lead the way for real change. LINKS “How I’m Trying to Process Things Right Now” by David C. Baker “Speech and Systems” - episode 186 of Exponent podcast A Statement from the Founders of Monday Night Brewing
Wed, June 03, 2020
Critical Questions Your New Business Person Should Be Able to Answer
David is frequently surprised by how many new business people have trouble answering five particular important questions about their jobs and their firms.
Wed, May 20, 2020
The Hate Sandwich You're About to Eat
Blair gets David to share a part of his upcoming book about how all client relationships have a cycle of love-hate-love that we have to be prepared for and push through.
Wed, May 06, 2020
Will You Be My Friend
David expects to get in trouble discussing Blair's topic about the role of friendship in business—between sales people and prospects, account people and clients, and principals and employees.
Wed, April 22, 2020
Changes in the Agency Client Landscape
David and Blair try to predict the future about what principals of creative firms can expect in their relationships with clients as the COVID-19 pandemic continues to impact business.
Wed, April 08, 2020
Business As Unusual - Managing in a Pandemic
Blair and David address five common questions they have heard from creative entrepreneurs as they both have been helping firms navigate the economic changes being caused by the COVID-19 pandemic.
Wed, March 25, 2020
When Rightsizing Makes Sense...And How to Do It
Given where the economy is currently heading, David offers a framework that can help principals of creative firms make those tough staffing decisions in a timely and considerate manner.
Wed, March 11, 2020
The Power of Options
David asks Blair to clarify his advice on offering proposal options and anchoring. Is it about more than just scope and price? LINKS Implementing Value Pricing: A Radical Business Model for Professional Firms by Ronald Baker The Strategy and Tactics of Pricing: A Guide to Growing More Profitably by Thomas T. Nagle and Georg Müller Pricing with Confidence: 10 Ways to Stop Leaving Money on the Table by Reed Holden and Mark Burton Negotiating with Backbone: Eight Sales Strategies to Defend Your Price and Value by Reed Holden “6 Psychological Tactics Behind the Starbucks Menu” by Kent Hendricks The Soul of Enterprise podcast, episode 233: “Pricing at Starbucks and Six Tactics You Should Know About”
Wed, February 26, 2020
How Digital Firms Are Different
Blair and David record a live episode at the Orpheum Theater in New Orleans for Bureau of Digital’s Owner Summit. Thank you to Carl Smith and Lori Averitt at Bureau of Digital for hosting the live recording at the Owner Summit on February 7, 2020 in New Orleans. And thank you to the amazing staff at the Orpheum Theater for helping us with the production and staging!
Wed, February 12, 2020
The Impact of Agile in the Real World
David does all the heavy lifting for Blair in his recent article so they can finally discuss the overlap between Agile as a management method and pricing policy. LINKS “Pros and Cons of Agile…in the Real World” by David C. Baker 2Bobs episode 78: “Phase Your Client Engagements” Manifesto for Agile Software Development “Agile is Dead (Long Live Agility)” by Dave Thomas
Wed, January 29, 2020
Phase Your Client Engagements
Blair wants firms to get paid to write their proposals, which is the first of his four phases of client engagement. LINKS “Different Pricing Models” - 2Bobs episode 61 “A Beginner’s Guide to Negotiating” - 2Bobs episode 53 “Alternative Forms of Reassurance” - 2Bobs episode 46 Transcript
Wed, January 15, 2020
Understanding Account People
David keeps encountering clients who don’t appreciate how their account people actually contribute to their overall business, and Blair totally identifies with the traits that David describes. 2Bobs episode 44: “The Best Ways to Disrespect Account People” WHAT ACCOUNT PEOPLE DO, IN BROAD STROKES: Pull necessary data from the client, even when it’s tough to get their cooperation. Sell recommendations back to them that are in their best interest. Lead the client. (Interesting fact: “strategy” is latin for “general” in army who leads.) Protect margins. Grow the account. Send the client to hell...and help them enjoy the trip (e.g., change orders). Read social signals and intervene before catastrophe strikes. Manage an account review, disputes, mistakes, etc. Follow client contacts to their next job. Keep ear to the ground as agency innovates client offerings. PERSONALITY: Goal is authority and prestige. Judges others by their ability to verbalize and be flexible. Overuses enthusiasm, selling ability, and optimism. Fears boxed in environment without room to grow.
Wed, January 01, 2020
What Leverage Do You Have With Client Contracts and MSAs?
Blair and David share their frustrations around some contracts that they have been asked to sign, making it clear why they are not attorneys. This episode does not contain legal advice. Get a lawyer for that: Sharon Toerek Candice Kersh Jeffrey Dermer Michael Lasky
Wed, December 18, 2019
When You Put Someone Else In Charge of Your Firm
David keeps seeing principals who get someone else to run their firm, which is not a good idea. Then he gets Blair's thoughts on why he thinks it happens. Links David C. Baker Seminar Win Without Pitching Workshops with Blair Enns Built to Sell: Creating a Business That Can Thrive Without You by John Warrillow Entrepreneurial Operating System Traction Library The Outsiders: Eight Unconventional CEOs and Their Radically Rational Blueprint for Success by William Thorndike
Wed, December 04, 2019
Productized Vs Customized Services and Monthly Recurring Revenue
David and Blair lay out some of the reasons why they think, in most cases, agencies pursuing recurring revenue models are making a mistake. Links “Why Monthly Recurring Revenue (MRR) Arrangements May Not Be Ideal” by David C. Baker The End of Average: How We Succeed in a World That Values Sameness by Todd Rose Pricing Creativity: A Guide to Profit Beyond the Billable Hour by Blair Enns The Life-Changing Magic of Tidying Up: The Japanese Art of Decluttering and Organizing by Marie Kondō “Unbundling the Corporation” by John Hagel III and Marc Singer for Harvard Business Review
Wed, November 20, 2019
Which RFPs Should You Respond To?
David brings up one of Blair's favorite topics: how they keep themselves and their clients from being trapped by requests for proposal. LINKS 2Bobs episode 70, “The Only New Business Indicator That Matters”
Wed, November 06, 2019
A Podcast After-Action Review
Blair and David share what they have learned as they have recorded 2Bobs podcast episodes for almost 4 years - what has worked well, what has been challenging, and what they would recommend to those agency principals who might be considering their own podcast. LINKS The Soul of Enterprise Episode 15: “The Best Learning Method Ever Devised: After Action Reviews” with Ron Baker and Ed Kless Build a Better Agency with Drew McClellan EconTalk with Russell Roberts Marcus dePaula, podcast producer and consultant BLAIR'S PODCASTING SETUP Telefunken M82 dynamic XLR microphone Audient iD4 audio interface Rolls MS111 Mic Mute Senal SMH-1000 Professional Field and Studio Monitor Headphones Apple QuickTime Player app for AIFF audio recording using the Maximum quality setting Skype for the conversation (audio only) DAVID'S PODCASTING SETUP Sennheiser HMDC 27 Professional Broadcast Headset with custom extension cable (so David can roam as he records) Audient iD4 audio interface Rolls MS111 Mic Mute Rogue Amoeba Audio Hijack for WAV audio recording of both David's mic and the Skype call (as a backup) Skype for the conversation (audio only) MARCUS' EQUIPMENT RECOMMENDATIONS MARCUS' REMOTE RECORDING INSTRUCTIONS USING CLEANFEED.NET
Wed, October 23, 2019
Common Traits of Success
Blair and David consider the hundreds of firms they have each worked with over the years to identify the characteristics of highest performing firms and what they have seen agency principals do to succeed.
Wed, October 09, 2019
The Only New Business Indicator That Matters
Blair shares some new data (at the time he and David recorded this discussion in January of 2016) that points to the one variable that can predict the likelihood of a prospect hiring your firm.
Wed, September 25, 2019
Taking the Team Seriously
David wants to know if Blair thinks it's harder for creative firms to find great prospective clients, or great employees, as they unpack how to attract the right candidates using a “lead generation” plan. Ideas for “Lead Generation” of candidates: Social media presence Guest teach a single class at a known school that typically turns out a best student every semester Offer your facility as a meeting place for trade/association meetings Put a rotating art gallery with an open house when the display rotates Quarterly webinar for prospective employees on topics they would be fascinated with, including guests (or even a podcast) Skill-building workshops open to the community, bringing in expert teachers Build a model that depends on a steady rotation of contractors to test them out Keep a great relationship w/ employees who leave you—they are frequently your best people when they return after an interim education somewhere else
Wed, September 11, 2019
Top Ten New Business Development Myths
Blair is in the spotlight discussing some bad practices driven by assumptions he's seen his clients make over the past couple decades, a few of which are new to David. 10. Branding and Full Service Advertising are Specializations 9. The More You Have to Sell the More Likely a Sale 8. An Increase in Meetings Leads to an Increase in Sales 7. The Written Proposal is a Necessary Step in the Sales Process 6. Build Personal Relationships to Build Sales 5. Presentation Skills Training Leads to Improved Business Development Success 4. Chemistry Wins New Business 3. Selling is Persuading 2. It’s Everyone’s Job to Sell 1. You Have to Pitch (for Free) to Win a Creative Assignment LINKS Original article by Blair Enns, “ Top Ten New Business Development Myths ” The Challenger Sale by Neil Rackham Contagious Culture: Show Up, Set the Tone, and Intentionally Create an Organization that Thrives by Anese Cavanaugh
Wed, August 28, 2019
Six Staffing Blunders
Blair interviews David about six employee archetypes which can end up being big hiring mistakes for creative firms.
Wed, August 14, 2019
Making Adversarial Assumptions in the Sales Process
Blair has another podcast therapy session about “good clients vs. bad clients,” as David tries to help him see procurement people as actual human beings who sometimes are just overwhelmed.
Wed, July 31, 2019
Building Your Personal Brand
Blair has an aversion to the topic of personal branding, so David offers examples of why, when, and how the personal brands he’s seen principals develop can be either helpful or harmful for their firms. LINKS “Launch Your Career as a Podcast Guest” by David C. Baker Episode 1 of Dexter Guff is Smarter Than You : “You Don’t Exist Without a Personal Brand” The Visible Expert® by Hinge Marketing “Personal Branding for Creative Professionals” course by Dorie Clark
Wed, July 17, 2019
Can We Learn Anything From the Consulting Firms?
Blair and David explore the differences they see between consultants and agencies in an effort to understand how the landscape is changing and what creative firms can do to beat consultants at their own game. Links The Business of Expertise: How Entrepreneurial Experts Convert Insight to Impact + Wealth by David C. Baker Alchemy: The Dark Art and Curious Science of Creating Magic in Brands, Business, and Life by Rory Sutherland
Wed, July 03, 2019
Be the Client You Want to See in the World
David admits to making a mistake, as Blair finishes his discussion from a couple episodes back on the eighth pricing model, which he claims “is the highest expression of entrepreneurship there is.” Links 2Bobs episode 61 - “Different Pricing Models” Prohibition Gin and Toolbox Design Cup & Leaf “Unbundling the Corporation” by John Hagel III and Marc Singer for the Harvard Business Review The Futur and Chris Do of Blind™ Conscious Minds
Wed, June 19, 2019
Size Matters
David and Blair address the obsession that many principals have with the size of firms, and the advantages of being either big or small.
Wed, June 05, 2019
Different Pricing Models
Blair is struck by how creative businesses have trouble applying their creativity to their revenue models, so he and David discuss some of the best ways firms can get paid. LINKS Subscribed: Why the Subscription Model Will Be Your Company's Future - and What to Do About It by Tien Tzuo The Membership Economy: Find Your Super Users, Master the Forever Transaction, and Build Recurring Revenue by Robbie Kellman Baxter The Automatic Customer: Creating a Subscription Business in Any Industry by John Warrillow 2Bobs Episode 31: “Mastering the Value Conversation” 2Bobs Episode 25: “Pricing Creativity” Pricing Creativity: A Guide to Profit Beyond the Billable Hour by Blair Enns
Wed, May 22, 2019
Greatness Requires Discomfort
David and Blair each share their own perspectives on how chasing comfort has kept them and their clients making the right decisions in both management and sales situations. LINKS 2Bobs Episode 2: Say What You Think The Challenger Sale: Taking Control of the Customer Conversation by Matthew Dixon
Wed, May 08, 2019
Selling to Clients With In-house Resources
Blair wants creative firms to quit viewing in-house resources as the enemy and demonstrates how the arrangements between the two can be mutually beneficial. LINKS 2Bobs Episode 2: Say What You Think 2Bobs Episode 57: There are NOT Seven Reasons Why Clients Hire You
Wed, April 24, 2019
Things Principals Should Do More Of
David and Blair each share a list of things that they wish agency principals would do more of to take their firms to the next level of success. Links "The Problem of Standards" by David Maister 2001
Wed, April 10, 2019
There Are NOT Seven Reasons Why Clients Hire You
Blair and David work on clarifying things by coming up with only six reasons why businesses hire creative firms.
Wed, March 27, 2019
Where Do Ideas Come From?
Blair and David share the places they find good ideas that they turn into content, the best of which end up being incorporated into their services. Read the transcript ➝
Wed, March 13, 2019
It's a Small World After All
David finds Blair's thoughts fascinating on how far agencies should service or pursue clients geographically, and whether or not the location of a firm should be a factor.
Wed, February 27, 2019
Why Account People Should Close New Business
David gives Blair four practical reasons for sales people to hand off new business to the account person before the deal is closed instead of after.
Wed, February 13, 2019
A Beginner's Guide to Negotiating
David gets into Blair's head to get his 10 basic negotiating tips that he has worked with clients on over the years. LINKS “10 Negotiating Tips” (with 5 bonus tips) “Selling in One Lesson,” 2Bobs episode 49 Buying Less for Less: How to avoid the Marketing Procurement dilemma , by Gerry Preece Negotiating with Backbone: Eight Sales Strategies to Defend Your Price and Value , by Reed K. Holden TRANSCRIPT DAVID C. BAKER: Blair, today we are going to talk about 10 really interesting ways you can get your spouse to go ... Wait, I haven't, quit laughing. I haven't - BLAIR ENNS: I'm out. DAVID: How to get your spouse to go to the place for dinner that you want to go to. BLAIR: Okay. DAVID: How's that? BLAIR: Sure. What kind of trouble could we possibly get into? DAVID: Yeah, that would be a really stupid pod ... No. What we're talking about are some negotiating tips that you've thought about over many years. You've polled, you've tested, you've researched. You've worked with clients on. You've consolidated them into this one place. We may get to some bonus tips. I don't know if we'll have the time, but we definitely want to talk about the 10 basic tips around negotiating. Can you get me inside your head for a minute before I start pulling these out from you one by one? BLAIR: Well it's pretty crowded in there. What is it that you wanted access to? I gave you my password to everything the other day. What else do you want? DAVID: Is this going to be this difficult today? Are we going to do that? Or are we going to be cooperative? BLAIR: I'm feeling a little punchy. DAVID: Yeah, I see. I see you are. BLAIR: I'm in another hotel room. This is day 31 of a 36 day road trip. I tweeted today, "Okay. I've answered the question, how much travel is too much?". DAVID: Yeah. BLAIR: Getting into my head, I think these tips, I considered it kind of a beginner's guide to negotiating. I don't consider myself to be an expert on negotiating. But you can't advise people on the subject of selling and pricing without knowing something about negotiating, so a while ago I took a bunch of the best practices that I've encountered on the subject of negotiating, and kind of put it into one place. That's I think what we're going to talk about today. I'll call it a beginner's guide to negotiating, and we're referencing to these 10 tips that I've published previously. DAVID: Hopefully it will be more than a beginner's guide. But
Wed, January 30, 2019
Seven Positioning Mistakes to Avoid
After having discussed positioning in multiple previous episodes, David puts together in this one episode the seven most common mistakes firms make when positioning themselves.
Wed, January 16, 2019
Debriefing After a New Business Call
David asks Blair about using "after action reviews" following sales calls, and the two key questions that should be asked as a part of that debriefing process. LINKS Episode #15 - The Best Learning Method Ever Devised: After Action Reviews, from The Soul of Enterprise Podcast with Ron Baker and Ed Kless TRANSCRIPT DAVID C. BAKER: Blair, today we are going to talk about debriefing after a new business call. Not after just a business call, but a new business call, right? So how did this topic come to your mind? What got you thinking about this? BLAIR ENNS: I'm a fan of Ron Baker and Ed Kless' podcast, The Soul of Enterprise . They had a podcast way back when and they made the comment that they see the after action review as the most powerful ... I'm gonna get this wrong, but is the most powerful knowledge tool ever invented. DAVID: Wow. BLAIR: That's a big statement. But we were using after action reviews in our business. And we still use them. There's various forms of them. Their origin actually came out of the US Military in the Vietnam War as a way of looking at campaigns. It's a way of essentially reviewing what happened without being critical of any individual and keeping the whole thing positive so that you can figure out what you would do next time. In fact, an after action review is really just okay what was the goal of the thing that we did, whatever the thing we did is, what went well, and then what would we do differently next time? And then there's some protocols around who speaks first and who speaks last, and how a rank is supposed to be unimportant. But I'm listening to their podcast, I realize, oh, yeah we do this all the time in our business. And it is really valuable. And I'd never thought of it as maybe the most valuable knowledge tool ever. But it occurred to me that I've never really advocated for after action reviews in sales. But I think it's probably a pretty good idea especially if you or employee who's on the front lines doing sales or doing new business development, if they're new or they've just come out of some training. Or you're stuck and things aren't going your way. BLAIR: But it's probably a good idea to review all of the key opportunities. The ones that you win and the ones that you lose. But even in the early days, I think just a new business meeting like a phone call. A kind of a lengthier phone call. Something lengthier than no we're not interested, thanks, goodbye. Or a face to face meeting I think is probably a really good idea to review. Let's just review what happened, and decide what went well, and decide what we would do differently next time. DAVID: So just a couple
Wed, January 02, 2019
Shoot - Now What Do We Do?
Blair asks David to make some predictions about the new year, and then they discuss some ways that businesses can prepare for and react to (God forbid) an economic downturn. TRANSCRIPT BLAIR ENNS: David, predict the future. Coming year, the year ahead ... It doesn't matter when people are listening to this or when we've recorded it, but in the year ahead is it going to be a year of abundance or is it batten the hatches, we've got trouble? DAVID C. BAKER: I think it'll probably be right in the middle. I think it'll be- BLAIR: Oh, come on. Make a guess. DAVID: Oh, no but that is a real prediction. BLAIR: Don't you love driving through these small towns and rural parts of whatever country and you see these fortune tellers that read the cards or whatever? And they're all in these shitty little offices. I'm just wondering, how does that work? DAVID: How come they're not in palaces? BLAIR: Yeah. Right. Or the 49th floor of some high rise condominium. DAVID: You talk with your clients, a lot of them every week, and I do as well, it'd be interesting to see what you're feeling right now. What they're feeling right now. My sense is that there's quite a bit of uncertainty, like the stock market wasn't great through last year, and unemployment is still low, and there's some political uncertainty. The world feels a little bit fragile. But really that's kind of in our heads. DAVID: The actual business results have been pretty good for almost everybody in the marketing field. There are a few isolated examples of firms that have struggled a lot. Often because they lost one big client or something like that. But it's generally, firms have been doing really well, and there's thinking okay, is this next year, is this year, 2019, going to be as good as last year? DAVID: I don't think it will be better. I don't think it will be a whole lot worse. I think we'll be lucky to have a similar year. But what do you think? BLAIR: For context, we're recording this on December 21st, 2018. So Happy Solstice by the way. So we're going into 2019 wondering how things are going to shake out. And the stock market, see I don't pay much attention to the stock market but I just noticed that all the gains for the year have been wiped out in the last few weeks. So the market is down. There is discussion within the broader financial markets about whether, or not we're headed for another 2008-ish crisis. There is the global political unrest and uncertainty. BLAIR: But in the face of all that, if you ask me to make a prediction of the year ahead ... this has nothing to do with reality, I realize as I was thinking about it. And only to do with whatever is going on inside of me. But I always believe my future is bigger than my past, to steal a phrase from Dan Sullivan, from Strategic Coach. So I'm an eternal optimist. BLAIR: Now it doesn't mean I think that the market conditions are g
Wed, December 19, 2018
Selling in One Lesson
Blair describes to David how he was able to distill his Win Without Pitching approach into a simple formula: P=db/D Power = desirability / Desire Links Economics in One Lesson: The Shortest and Surest Way to Understand Basic Economics by Henry Hazlitt Economics in One Lesson Wikipedia page Henry Hazlitt Wikipedia page The Win Without Pitching Manifesto by Blair Enns Transcript DAVID C. BAKER: Blair, We are going to talk about selling in one lesson. BLAIR ENNS: I know why you're laughing. DAVID: I'm laughing because you're constantly pretending that people need to hear all kinds of lessons, but if really is selling is just in one lesson, then doesn't that sort of undermine, anyway, let's just go on. I'm sorry, I'm just trying too hard here. BLAIR: Yeah. DAVID: So selling in one lesson. But what's interesting about this is that you have a formula, and I think we probably need to put this formula in the show notes, right? Because just being able to picture this as a, so tell us the formula and then where this came from because I find it really fascinating. BLAIR: Yeah, it's a formula. It's not really made for the audio medium but what the hell. So selling in one lesson, well let me back up a little bit. So I've been doing the Win Without Pitching thing since about 2002. And since then, people have said to me, you know, like in as few words as possible, explain how you win without pitching. So it took me a long time to get it down to two steps. And so here's how you win without pitching in two steps. BLAIR: Step one, you change the power structure in the buy sell relationship, and you do that through positioning and we could talk more about that, but we'll get into that in a bit. But that's step one. You change the power dynamics or the power structure in the relationship through the positioning of the firm. By vastly reducing the number of direct competitors you have, you change the power dynamics towards you because the client's power, their power in the sale, their power to push you around, dictate price, etc, comes from the availability of substitutes. So by narrowing your focus, building deep expertise, you become this expert firm and you change the power dynamics. So that's step one, change the power dynamics in the relationship primarily through positioning. BLAIR: And then step two is to leverage that new found power that you have to change the way your services are bought and sold. And it takes a really long time to unpack that second step because it
Wed, December 05, 2018
The Risk Episode
After touching on the topic of risk in many other episodes of this podcast, David and Blair finally take a full episode to discuss at length the role of risk in entrepreneurship. LINKS "Confessions of a Recovering Consultant" by Blair Enns Hyman P. Minsky Archive Twitter exchange with Jonathan Stark on risk Strategic Coach program with Dan Sullivan "A Mission With No Exit" by Blair Enns Peter Drucker TRANSCRIPT BLAIR ENNS: David, what's the riskiest thing you've ever done? DAVID BAKER: I've always wanted to have a really long pregnant pause right after you start something, because you're always telling me I can regain the power with silence. The biggest risk I've taken was probably telling my wife about the risks I was going to take. BLAIR: Yeah, right. Wow. Hands up, everybody. DAVID: She's only told me there was one thing I could not do and it's so illogical. She says I cannot jump out of an airplane. She doesn't terrify flying, or race, or whatever, but I can't jump out, which seems so illogical. So, as soon as I get some, you know what, I'm going to jump out of an airplane. BLAIR: You've got some high risk hobbies. I'm not sure that you indulge in all of them, but tell us a little bit about your high risk hobbies. List them off, because it's a little bit incredible. Here's the consultant, somebody who types for a living. DAVID: Oh, that is dismissive, types for a living. BLAIR: Well, I refer to myself that way too. DAVID: Yeah. BLAIR: Like I'm a typist, right? I have friends who have calluses, like they're real men. You and I, we type and talk on the phone. DAVID: Okay. So, I taught motorcycle racing. I fly airplanes and helicopters. I travel to very dangerous parts of the country. BLAIR: Yeah. DAVID: I love the shooting sports, not shooting at each other. I'm not so much into those, and I don't hunt, but I like shooting sports. And I do a podcast with you, that's pretty up there too. What are yours? BLAIR: Yeah, right. Okay. I knew I was going to open with this question. For those of you listening, if anybody is listening, this is the risk episode, where we're going to talk about various types of risk, but to answer your question. When I knew I was going to pose this question to you, I started thinking oh,
Wed, November 21, 2018
Open Book Management
Blair gets David to admit that he was kind of wrong about open book management being just a fad when he originally wrote about it almost two decades ago, and David offers ways that it can actually benefit both employees and clients when used appropriately. Links Financial Management of a Marketing Firm by David C. Baker TRANSCRIPT BLAIR ENNS: David, today we're going to talk about open book management. How does that sound to you? DAVID C. BAKER: Sounds like you think you're in charge. Why don't you say, "Can we talk about that?" BLAIR: Well, let me assert control. David, would it be okay with you if we talked about open book management? DAVID: Great idea. I like that idea. Let's do that. BLAIR: Okay, fantastic. I just happen to have an article here that you wrote. I've actually just pulled it out of your book, Financial Management of a Marketing Firm . We don't talk about that. We should do some podcasts on that book, because that's a book that every principal of a creative firm should have on their desk or their bookshelf. And the reason I had it out is, I was just on a call with the owner of a small creative firm who wants to raise his level of business acumen, and we don't have the training program that he's looking for. Ours is too specific to business development. So I said, "You need to buy this book." And then, as I was leafing through the book, I saw you had the stuff on open book management. We'd already agreed that we were going to talk about open book management. But I want to read something from this that's in the book. BLAIR: It says, "OBM, open book management, is clearly a fad. That doesn't make it wrong, just suspect!" Exclamation mark. "Open space layouts are also a fad, and time will tell how they catch on. Though there's already strong anecdotal evidence, if that's possible, that people jumped on the bandwagon and only later asked where it was headed." DAVID: So you want me to pull stuff out of here to embarrass you, as well? Or not? BLAIR: "In my opinion, open book management is a fad that will not catch on with the masses." When did you write this? DAVID: Last month. No, the first time I took a stab at writing about open book management was in 2000, so you gotta give me a little bit of slack. I was kind of wrong about that. I'm still going to be right about open plan offices, but it's going to take another decade for the world to figure out that I'm right about that. BLAIR: Really? DAVID: Yeah. BLAIR: Yeah, you think we're going to go back or away from open plan offices? DAVID: You know, one of the key components was that the principal or leader or whatev
Wed, November 07, 2018
Alternative Forms of Reassurance
Blair and David analyze and then look beyond the requests for reassurance potential clients make during the late stage of a sale to address their underlying motivations. LINKS “Transtheoretical Model” (Prochaska & DiClemente, 1983; Prochaska, DiClemente, & Norcross, 1992) TRANSCRIPT DAVID C. BAKER: Blair, today I want to ask you about something that I've heard you talk about for many years and it's this notion of alternative forms of reassurance. BLAIR ENNS: Yeah. DAVID: We used to do this event together and we did it for like 10 years running. BLAIR: You mean that one where I carried the both of us. DAVID: Yeah. That's the one, right. Yeah. Yeah, that's definitely the one. I remember listening particularly attentively to this one section that you used to talk about because it was a new concept to me, but I was also really fascinated by it and I thought, mainly I thought the title was just perfect and you called it something like the alternative forms of reassurance and as I recall at a certain point in the sales cycle when an agency is in the process of landing a new client, that prospective client still wants a little bit more information and they might ask for something and this was a way as I recall, where you could kind of redirect the question and provide alternative means of reassurance. You remember those days? BLAIR: Yeah, I remember those days fondly and the way you described it, I think of a judo move. We're talking about late in the sale and I guess I'll back up in a minute and explain why reassurance is important late and it's not important at all early, but we're talking about late in the sale when your job as a salesperson is to reassure this nervous late stage client and they ask you for things. I was counseled to look beyond the request, the specific request and look at the motivation for the request and sometimes the request is the negotiation, the request is to cut price. Maybe you're just negotiating, but maybe there's something else going on here or maybe they're asking for a money back guarantee or maybe they're asking for references or maybe they're asking to do things a little bit differently. DAVID: Right. BLAIR: In a lot of those situations, you have to think about what is the client buying from you. Anytime they hire your firm, they're buying a path to their desired future state, and so when you put forward a proposal in front of them with a price attached and they look at that price, you are essentially pricing their desired future state discounted for uncertainty. In every price, there is an uncertainty discount that's built in or there's some math around an uncertainty discount that the client is doing. Looking beyond the motivation for the request late in the buying cycle, again, it might be to cut price, it might be to o
Wed, October 24, 2018
Seven Strategies to Grow Accounts
David disagrees with Blair (sort of) on his model for growing existing accounts in the post-AOR era, and then offers his list of 6 ideas on the topic. Links The Peter principle The Challenger Sale by Matthew Dixon and Brent Adamson Tony Mikes Transcript DAVID C. BAKER: Today Blair, we are coming to you live from the ReCourses Woodworking Shop, where so far I have done no woodworking, but a whole lot of podcast recording. Maybe I need to take my saws up to my office or something, but I can wander because I'm on like a corded mic and I can just look at my stuff. If you start to bore me, I just read the manuals for my saws and it's really fun. Is that okay with you? BLAIR ENNS:Yeah. I'll hear the table saw fire up in the background, right? DAVID: You know you need to start to get more interesting at that point. BLAIR: You know you're retreating further and further from civilization and identifying more and more with machinery and animals. DAVID: And the rest of the world thanks me for this. BLAIR: All right. Unabomber, what are we doing? DAVID: Today, we're talking about growing accounts. And as I was thinking about this, why are we so interested in this? I guess one alternative would be that we could just really land big accounts at the beginning but it seems like two things have changed in the world that our listeners occupy. One is that they are tending to start with relationships that begin smaller. That's one thing that I've noticed. So it makes it more critical to grow accounts. The other thing that's changed is that it's much more of a project-based world and so maybe growth isn't necessarily going to solve all of that, but we're talking about a chain of projects. So it's kind of like an AOR relationship disguised as a whole bunch of projects that follow on, which require the skills to grow an account. Why do you want to talk about this? Why is this that important? BLAIR: Yeah. And I think you're right in describing the environment. In this non-AOR environment, the emphasis is greater than it's ever been to go mine the account for the very next project because there aren't the guarantees, to the extent that there were guarantees at all in an AOR relationship. I guess in some of them, there were some form of guarantee. So you really do have to kind of eat what you kill in the modern project-based world. BLAIR: As somebody who focuses on the new business side of things, I've worked with a lot of firms where they were really good at new business and then you look at how quickly their accounts or clients move on, you think, "Man, if you would just solve that problem, you would be
Wed, October 10, 2018
The Best Ways to Disrespect Account People
Blair remembers what it was like when he was an account person himself, and David shares five ways firms can treat their account people better. LINKS “How to Drive Your Employees Bat Sh*t Crazy” 2Bobs episode TRANSCRIPT BLAIR ENNS: David, we're talking today about how to disrespect people. This is your topic idea. DAVID C. BAKER: Yeah, I get so many requests from people that want help with this, and they naturally ask me. Right? BLAIR: Yeah. Of course they do. DAVID: "Who'd be really an expert at this? Ah, David, yeah, he could help us with this." BLAIR: Yeah. The topic is, best ways to disrespect account people. Why this topic? DAVID: I see so many firms disrespecting account people. I mean, they're obviously not doing it intentionally, but when you look at how they're treated, and how they're brought into workflow and all this stuff, it's pretty obvious that they could do things a little bit better, and so when I talk through it with them, their eyes light up, and they see, "Oh, there's another way to do this." That's the topic. I thought it might be interesting, because it just will save me time, right, in consulting, because then I won't have to answer this question every time, right? BLAIR: You just said in this podcast, "I'm just thinking." I was an account person for many years, and I was going to say, "I don't recall ever being disrespected," but it just took me about five seconds to think longer, and now these emotions have all come flooding back. There are times when, as the account person, you're on top of the world. Right? I remember some of those moments early in my career. DAVID: Just this morning, like an hour ago, I don't know, maybe it was the topic, it brought me back to this moment where I was just thinking, "I should have quit in that moment," back working for a large, multinational agency where I was disrespected. I thought, "I should have just quit right then." BLAIR: Okay. Let's get into this, so you've got a bunch of ways in which account people are disrespected. We're going to unpack these. Right? The first one on your list here is this idea of recognizing or not recognizing how difficult the role is. DAVID: Yeah. BLAIR: Hot potato. Over to you. DAVID: Imagine working for a president, don't think of a specific one, just imagine working for this anonymous president of a country, and you are the ambassador, and you are asked to represent your country, but also speak for the country where you are planted, basically. I believe strongly that the most difficult role, not the most important role, but the most difficult role in a firm is this account person, because you have one foot firmly planted on both sides of the fence. You're supposed to speak for the client, but you're also supposed to not give away the shop. I think it's so crit
Wed, September 26, 2018
The Seven Masteries of the Rainmaker
Blair offers seven mindsets that any seller of expertise needs to master so that they can behave like the expert in the sales cycle. Links "The Jedi Mindset" by Blair Enns McClelland's Human Motivation Theory, also known as Three Needs Theory, Acquired Needs Theory, Motivational Needs Theory, and Learned Needs Theory Transcript DAVID C. BAKER: Good morning, Blair. You are in London. I'm in Nashville. BLAIR ENNS: Yeah, it's my afternoon, and it's your seven AM. DAVID: And don't tell me you've gotten a lot more done today already, because that's just a time change thing. Has nothing to do with productivity. Today we're going to talk about the seven masteries of the rainmaker, choke, choke. BLAIR: You're choking on the word rainmaker, are you? DAVID: Well, a little bit. I'm also, it's like seven. How come it's not six or eight? Seven sounds quite biblically, almost like we need to take an offering at the end of this or something. BLAIR: Let's do that. DAVID: I'm more choking on the idea of the rainmaker. Do you hear that term much anymore? I don't really hear it. We know what it means, though. BLAIR: No, but there was a time when you heard it often. In fact, if an agency were running an ad looking for a new business person, probably a health percentage of those ads would have the title rainmaker wanted. DAVID: Yeah. BLAIR: I've never liked the term rainmaker. It's a little bit funny that an agency principal would be looking for an individual who essentially has magical powers, the ability to make it rain. DAVID: Right. It's dry. The crops are going to die. All we can do is just rely on magic. So let's call on the rainmaker. We have no idea how he ... it was always a he back in those days, but we don't know how he or she does it, but this is our last resort. BLAIR: We have no positioning. We have no leads. We have no prospects. We have no formalized new business process. You absolutely need somebody who can make it rain, yeah. So I've kind of used that term tongue in cheek, but the idea of seven masteries, it really stems from the notion of mindset. Because you can master behaviors. You can master all kinds of things. And when I originally wrote about this a few years ago , I had come home to the idea that I was teaching people sales process and people were learning, so they were onboarding and understanding what it is that they knew to do in specific situations, but yet, they still couldn't bring themselves to do it. BLAIR: So I kind of went deep into the subject and realized well, the things that I'm asking them to do,
Wed, September 12, 2018
If I Were Starting Over
LINKS "The Great Convergence Is Upon Us" by Blair Enns "CRM: The Train Coming At You" by Blair Enns AltGroup.net website "Eight Gauges on Your Agency Dashboard" by David C. Baker The Outsiders: Eight Unconventional CEOs and Their Radically Rational Blueprint for Success by William Thorndike "Rising From the Ashes: A New Agency Model" by Blair Enns TRANSCRIPTION DAVID C. BAKER: Blair today we're going to start over. Both you and I are going to start over. We're going to pretend to start over anyway, and the topic is If I Were Starting a Firm Now. In other words this is a firm that you and I work with, and the folks who listen to this podcast generally. If I were starting a firm like that now, what would I do differently? We're going way back in time because I ran a firm ... you worked at multiple firms, and I started and ran a firm for six years. My goodness, I would do so many things differently. If we talked about this 10 years ago, the answers would be different. If we talked about it 10 years from now, the answers would be different. But at this moment in time, what would we do differently if we were going to start a firm now? Are you up for that topic? BLAIR ENNS: I am up for it, and as you've pointed out I have never owned a firm before. I've run a small office, I've been the number two in a larger office, but I've never owned a firm. So I'll try it one, let's do this. DAVID: Okay. We're going to ping pong with some questions here, and I'm going to start by asking for your opinion on something that's really the big umbrella here. The reason I want to ask you is because you recently wrote a lot about this, and it was a provocative article the things that you talked about. I haven't talked with you to see what kind of feedback you got about it, but here is the question; what category of firm would you start? Would it be a digital firm? Or a dev shop? Or a UX shop? Or a PR firm? How would you start a firm from a category standpoint if you were starting over? BLAIR: I think the piece you're referring to is something I wrote called "The Great Convergence Is Upon Us." The convergence I was talking about is the convergence of design, which is often UX design, software
Wed, August 29, 2018
The X-Factor
Blair gives David some homework to identify patterns in the principals of creative practices who are successful and have that "je ne sais quoi." LINKS 2Bobs Episode 28 - "Positioning Cheats" Start With Why by Simon Sinek "Top 10 Podcasts Agency Owners Listen To" by Daniel de la Cruz Crucial Conversations - Tools for Talking When Stakes Are High by Kerry Patterson, Joseph Grenny, Ron McMillan, and Al Switzler TRANSCRIPT DAVID C. BAKER: Blair today, we are going to catch up with the rest of the world. I can't even say that with a straight face. We're only 80 years, 90 years behind. We're going to talk about the X-Factor. Okay. And the first time that phrase was used was in 1930, and we're just now getting ready to talk about it. BLAIR ENNS: You've actually done homework. That's not fair. DAVID: Well, a little bit. BLAIR: You went and looked up the first use of the word X-Factor... But hold on - you have to explain who used it. What was the context? DAVID: Well, it was like in the urban dictionary, so it's totally unreferenced, it's just somebody's idea of when it was first used. I probably shouldn't even brought that up. But the phrase that popped up a lot when I was researching the X-Factor 'cause you really wanted to talk about this and I'm intrigued too. It's the "je ne sais quoi" which means, "I do not know more." Have you heard that phrase? BLAIR: Yeah, "je ne sais quoi." I always thought it just meant ... And I should know because I'm Canadian. It's one of our official languages. I always it meant, I don't know. So it's, I do not know more. DAVID: I do not know more, it's a French phrase "je ne sais quoi." In other words, there's this X-Factor. I don't know more. There's just something about them. There's this X-Factor about them. It was pretty interesting. We're going to talk about principals that exhibit this X-Factor. BLAIR: Principles, the people: ...P-A-L-S. DAVID: Yeah, right. BLAIR: Not ...P-L-E-S. DAVID: I never use the other word anymore 'cause I'm so used to using principals ...A-L-S. BLAIR: So principals of creative practices who are successful, who have this "je ne sais quoi," this X-Factor of success right? DAVID: Yeah. You really enjoyed saying that with such a great accent didn't you. So you gave me homework. BLAIR: Yes. DAVID: Here's what you said to me: think of one recent client - this presumes I even have clients, right? But think of one recent client who is very successful, what
Wed, August 15, 2018
Starting...Existing...Thriving
Blair interviews David on what each of the three levels of success in running a creative firm looks like. Links 2Bobs Episode 39 - "Replacing Presentations With Conversations" The Win Without Pitching Manifesto , by Blair Enns The Business of Expertise: How Entrepreneurial Experts Convert Insight to Impact + Wealth , by David C. Baker Built to Sell: Creating a Business That Can Thrive Without You , by John Warrillow Pricing Creativity: A Guide to Profit Beyond the Billable Hour , by Blair Enns 2Bobs Episode 31 - "Mastering the Value Conversation" TRANSCRIPT BLAIR ENNS: David, it's been a while. DAVID C. BAKER: Has it? I haven't missed you all that much. Have you missed me? BLAIR: Since we've last recorded a podcast, I was listening to one that aired recently and it was talking about my first book is in its fourth printing. It's now going into its fifth printing and I realized that it just aired and we recorded that over a year ago. So if Marcus is digging into a backlog that far, that means we haven't been together for a while. DAVID: Yeah. And it's scary too because imagine how much our thinking has changed in a year? 'Cause you were wrong about so many things. BLAIR: That's an old joke, you need new material. DAVID: Okay, sorry. BLAIR: So since we've last recorded a podcast, I know they keep airing because we've got all this in the can, but you and I did an event in London and then we came home and then you and your wife came up to Kaslo and we celebrated. I was just looking yesterday at a photo of your wife and my wife in a bear den together on her birthday. DAVID: Right, I didn't want to go in it, it's why I took the picture. BLAIR: You're too smart. I took it from inside the
Wed, August 01, 2018
Replacing Presentations With Conversations
David re-reads the 2nd chapter of Blair’s first book , leading to a discussion about how sales people have to choose between either presenting to clients or being present to them. TRANSCRIPT DAVID C. BAKER: Blair, we are going to talk today about replacing presentations with conversations. BLAIR ENNS: The second proclamation. DAVID: Yeah, it's actually the second chapter in your book, which I'm holding right now in my grimy little hands. The book, it's black with red, looks like foil to make it look expensive, so you could charge an extra couple bucks for it probably. It says Win Without Pitching Manifesto, and the second chapter is about replacing presentations with conversations, but I think if you would let me, I'd like to make a public confession before we get into this. BLAIR: Sure. DAVID: Your book actually sells better than mine, and I want you to know that that pisses me off. BLAIR: I read a great quote the other day, maybe it was Gore Vidal who said, "Every time a friend succeeds, a little part of me dies." DAVID: I don't know if this was the third or fourth printing, but since we published the book, we got these three skids of your books. Not only do I hate the fact that your book has sold better than my last book, but I have to haul these skids of your book like for punishment, to remind me constantly that they're selling. BLAIR: That's what you get for moonlighting as my publisher. DAVID: Yeah, instead of focusing on what I should be doing, yeah. BLAIR: The fourth printing should arrive any day now, it's larger than all the other ones. Can I just keep bragging here? I'm surprised it's been, well I think it's somewhere around seven years, and sales just keep going up, I can't explain it. DAVID: I'm more surprised than anybody, because I've read it and I know you. The idea is replacing presentations with conversations, and actually I read through chapter two again, it was actually fun to read that part of the book again. You talk a lot about avoiding the big reveal, and the first thing I could think of was several episodes of Mad Men where they have the single pitch board on an easel in the conference room and it's covered, and when they say "big reveal", they mean big reveal, they lift this thing up and there's this tension in the room. You talk about the fact that we're addicted to that. I'm not sure that people would admit that they're addicted to that, can you talk more about that first, to start us off? BLAIR: Some people might listen to that and think, "Well, I'm not addicted to that," but I think you and I probably have different definitions of creativity. You might have kind of a broader look at what it means to be creative, and I take my cues from Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi, who wrote the book <a href= "https://amzn.to/2Kg1b9R" target="_blank
Wed, July 18, 2018
Reviewing the "Surveillance Footage"
There are seven patterns that almost all principals are guilty of. When David and Blair point them out, it leads their clients to say, “you must have hidden cameras in my office!"
Wed, July 04, 2018
Hacking Heuristics
Blair leads a discussion on how clients tend to take mental shortcuts in making business decisions, and how we can nudge clients without manipulating them to make a decision that is in their best interest. Links Rory Sutherland Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion and Pre-Suasion: A Revolutionary Way to Influence and Persuade by Robert Cialdini Nudge: Improving Decisions About Health, Wealth, and Happiness by Richard Thaler and Cass Sunstein "The Dark Arts of Leveraging Cognitive Biases" by Blair Enns Thinking, Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahneman Predictably Irrational by Dan Ariely Richard Feynman Dunning-Kruger effect Pricing Creativity: A Guide to Profit Beyond the Billable Hour by Blair Enns "Pricing Creativity" 2Bobs episode
Wed, June 20, 2018
Collaborating with Competitors
David and Blair compare each other's competitiveness, and then offer some specific ways principals can actually collaborate with their competitors as a part of building beneficial business relationships. TRANSCRIPT BLAIR: David, today we're going to talk about how to crush your competition, is that right? DAVID: Instantly I got very excited about the concept, that's really not what we're going to talk about, but I love that idea. Oh my God, I'm just too competitive, but that's actually the opposite of what we're going to talk about I think, unless you want to switch it at the last minute. BLAIR: No, I was with a bunch of guys the other night, and had this little men's night retreat thing, and maybe more than half of them were entrepreneurs. One guy was winding down a business, and he was saying, "I'm not sure if I'm competitive enough to be in business." I didn't say anything, but I thought, I suppose that's vital for you to be competitive in your nature to succeed in business, would you agree with that? DAVID: Yes, I would, but there's something wrapped around competitiveness that is just as important to me, and that's risk-taking. BLAIR: Yeah. DAVID: It does seem like the two of those are related, that's why I quit doing a few things outside of work, because I realized I was not as competitive as some of the young fools that were willing to sacrifice their body, and I wasn't. It's not that my body is so precious, it shouldn't be sacrificed, it was more I was allergic to the pain. Yeah, there's something about competitiveness and risk-taking yeah, for sure. I'm competitive, do you think of yourself as competitive? BLAIR: I've measured my competitiveness and your competitiveness, and you're more competitive than I am. I'm as competitive as the average person, but the makeup of that competitiveness is a little bit skewed. You can break down competitiveness into different forms, so I think of myself as average competitiveness. DAVID: Okay, this is more about how do we tame or tamp down some of our competitiveness for our advantage, and for the advantage of the world really. BLAIR: You really want to talk about this idea of collaborating with your competitors, is that correct? DAVID: Right, yeah, and it's something I've learned in my own business life, but I've also tried to coach my clients to do it as well. It's been really interesting, it's a concept that strikes us like, did he really just say you should be more collaborative with your competitors, or did I mishear him? No, that's really what I mean. BLAIR: Okay, so we think of being in business just like my friend said the other night, we think of it as business is highly competitive, and we need to be cutthroat, and we need to always have an eye on our competition. We're trying to best them, I'm fond of saying that positioning is an act of relativity. You position relative to your competition, and i
Wed, June 06, 2018
Four Segments of New Business
Blair and David come up with descriptive words that help clarify each of the four parts of what David calls the "pantheon" for new business: positioning, lead generation, sales, and pricing. Pricing Creativity: A Guide to Profit Beyond the Billable Hour Mastering the Value Conversation podcast episode
Wed, May 16, 2018
Using Assessment Instruments in Your Firm
David and Blair explore the big topic of personality assessment tools that can help firms “get the right people on the bus.” Not Your Typical Personality Types →
Wed, May 02, 2018
Thoughts on Partnership
Blair and David dive into a discussion on ownership structures, looking at the results of a survey that David did recently about partnerships.
Wed, April 18, 2018
What Good Clients Are Really Looking For
Listeners on Twitter wanted to know what clients actually want from creative firms, so David makes a list based on his experience of what good clients want, while Blair's reaction is "who cares what clients want... all they wanted was a 'faster horse.'"
Wed, April 04, 2018
Mastering the Value Conversation
David gets Blair to expound on his statement that “the value conversation is where value pricing theory goes to die,” and how crucial that conversation is within the sales framework he lays out in his new book, "Pricing Creativity: A Guide to Profit Beyond the Billable Hour."
Wed, March 21, 2018
Defining Success for Creatives
David and Blair take a stab at answering the complicated question of what success looks like for each of them personally, as well as what it means for their clients.
Wed, March 07, 2018
Words That Make Us Wince
Blair and David try to wind each other up by going through a list of phrases they hear from their clients way too often.
Wed, February 21, 2018
Positioning Cheats
David is bothered by the notion of helping people cheat, especially at positioning. So Blair discusses 10 ways firms could succeed even if they either aren't ready or don't believe in the idea of tight positioning. You’ll feel dirty.
Wed, February 07, 2018
Words We Try to Define
Expertise, selling, marketing, entrepreneurship, branding, positioning, and consultant. Blair and David do their best to come up with definitions for terms that they use regularly with clients.
Wed, January 24, 2018
The Business of Expertise - Part 3, Live from London
Blair revisits David's new book, " The Business of Expertise: How Entrepreneurial Experts Convert Insight to Impact + Wealth " in front of a live audience in London, who get to ask their own questions.
Wed, January 10, 2018
Pricing Creativity
Blair talks about his new book, "Pricing Creativity: A Guide to Profit Beyond the Billable Hour," and the process it took to write it. David gets him to share three of the main rules laid out in the book that firms should apply in order to see significant increases in profit.
Wed, December 27, 2017
Planning for the New Year
David and Blair each share some goals that they have for their clients and themselves for the upcoming year, which turns into somewhat of a therapy session.
Wed, December 13, 2017
Valuing and Selling Your Firm
Blair and David discuss why, when, and how principals sell their firms, and Blair reveals he is skeptical about selling his own firm.
Wed, November 29, 2017
The Complexities of Commission Culture
David picks Blair's brain about new business compensation, and what principals need to consider in finding their firm's place on the spectrum between full commission and salary with no incentives.
Wed, November 15, 2017
The Role of Profit in a Creative Enterprise
Blair has some questions this week and David has answers. The topic is profit - what it is and the targets firms should be setting.
Wed, November 01, 2017
Mea Culpa
David offers to help Blair remember all the times he's been wrong over the past couple decades. Then Blair says he'll be happy to reveal all of the places he's wrong now but doesn't even know it yet.
Wed, October 18, 2017
The Science Behind Structuring Roles
David reveals some of the science behind the extensive research he has done over the past couple decades to develop a key part of his Total Business Review . Blair asks him to explain the three roles principals cannot let go of, along with the three roles they should give up first if they want their firms to really thrive.
Wed, October 04, 2017
The Business of Expertise - Part 2
Blair revisits David's new book, interviewing him on the two chapters that cover the important topic of positioning: "Distinguishing Between Vertical and Horizontal Expertise," and "Principles for the Less Exchangeable Positioning of Expertise."
Wed, September 20, 2017
Seven Words You Can't Say in Business Development
David and Blair discuss a list of words Blair came up with that you should avoid to keep you out of trouble and in control of the buy-sell relationship.
Wed, September 06, 2017
Paid Time Off or Earned Time On
Blair needs a vacation. And David is blown away by how little time principals take off.
Wed, August 23, 2017
An Introduction to Blair Enns
David asks Blair to describe his work and his passion for the creative entrepreneurial community, and they discuss how where he lives has such a huge impact on what he does.
Wed, August 09, 2017
How to Drive Your Employees Bat Sh*t Crazy
The issue of how principals manage their employees continues to pop up for David year after year, and Blair is worried that he might have this problem in his own firm.
Wed, July 26, 2017
Being Like Everyone Else
Blair restrains himself from going off on a rant about who his clients choose to learn from.
Wed, July 12, 2017
An Introduction to David C. Baker
Blair interviews David about who he is and why people should pay attention to what he has to say - if they should at all...
Wed, June 28, 2017
How Much Should You Write?
Blair lays out a year-long experiment where he significantly increased his writing and online publishing commitment .
Wed, June 14, 2017
The Business of Expertise - Part 1
David Baker wrote a book! And Blair asks him about his authoring process, publishing, and the book's topic.
Wed, May 31, 2017
What Happens When You're Away
David and Blair list good and bad things that can happen when the principal steps away from their creative firm for a period of time, which is based on David's blog post on the matter .
Wed, May 17, 2017
Why Advertising Agencies Don't Advertise
Blair revisits the first piece of thought leadership he ever wrote, taking a look at why firms may or may not do for themselves what they do for their clients.
Wed, May 03, 2017
Thriving In the Middle of the Road
Blair questions David on an article he wrote about identifying the risks on either side of the road and navigating a path between both extremes.
Wed, April 19, 2017
A Sales Skeptic Interviews a Sales Expert
Blair does his best to reform David's skepticism of sales, discussing what works well and what fails miserably in the sales process.
Wed, April 05, 2017
Five Irrational Fears
What keeps you up at night? Blair interviews David about the five most common fears that he has seen in the consulting work he has done with over 900 firms.
Wed, March 15, 2017
The New Entrepreneur
David and Blair discuss how the nature of entrepreneurship is changing and what the new entrepreneur is facing today.
Wed, March 01, 2017
Truths and Myths About Money
Do you have trouble talking about money with clients? David makes seven common statements about money and Blair states whether they are true or false and why.
Wed, February 15, 2017
Say What You Think
David interviews Blair about the art of effectively communicating with clients and coworkers.
Wed, February 01, 2017
How Not to Act Like an Expert
David and Blair make a list of the common mistakes that people make in trying to portray themselves as experts.
loading...